Author Topic: Lakewood covid cases  (Read 522498 times)

Offline yaakov35

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #760 on: September 09, 2020, 12:44:21 PM »
This does not accurately describe the majority of the places where people will be davening in Lakewood.
Aha, In ur shul most women stay for more then shofer?

Offline dasmo801

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #761 on: September 09, 2020, 12:48:13 PM »
Aha, In ur shul most women stay for more then shofer?
Yes. In my 40 plus years of living in Lakewood, the ezras noshim of every shul that i davened in was packed on yomim noraim. May be mostly teens and older women but not an empty seat. And pretty sure its like that in most places around town.

Offline chevron

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #762 on: September 09, 2020, 12:48:56 PM »
Wearing masks and social distancing also lower the viral load people get, making the infections themselves less harmful. Additionally, as time goes on, better treatments become available, lessening the death toll and possibly the long-term impacts. And then we get to the length of time that antibodies confer immunity. There is absolutely nothing that says 25k people who get it right now cannot or will not get it again in a year.

There are many arguments, #1 everyone getting it at once overwhelmed the healthcare system, most people just don't understand this.

Shutting the country down reduced hospitalizations from car crashes etc it actually helped free up resources. .

But the short answer is, wearing a mask enables us to resume normal life, his logic that everyone will get it is just disgusting, there are many people who want to get out but can't if people don't wear masks.

Furthermore, there's no indication that "everyone will get it" because there's a vaccine in the works. ..


Offline Euclid

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #763 on: September 09, 2020, 12:57:25 PM »
Maybe the game plan is that the rabbeim should at least know the kids before they inevitably move to conferences.
Brilliant plan that would be. /s

Offline avromie7

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #764 on: September 09, 2020, 12:58:16 PM »
NME in the minyan in the Simcha Room, the DR, and now Bais Shalom. But most definitely not a concert.
FTFY
Assuming you're talking about Brustowsky/Frost
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #765 on: September 09, 2020, 12:59:07 PM »
The Cheder is telling anyone on their staff who's not feeling well to take off 2 weeks "but make sure you don't get tested". Heard this from a rebbe there.

A guy in BMG who's not feeling well was told to go back to his hometown (Passaic) if he wants to get tested "but don't get tested in Lakewood". Heard from his friend.
If there are implied consequences of getting tested, such as being fired, this sounds pretty illegal.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #766 on: September 09, 2020, 01:01:50 PM »
If there are implied consequences of getting tested, such as being fired, this sounds pretty illegal.
Doubtful that there are any such implied consequences...

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #767 on: September 09, 2020, 01:03:00 PM »
There are many arguments, #1 everyone getting it at once overwhelmed the healthcare system, most people just don't understand this.

Shutting the country down reduced hospitalizations from car crashes etc it actually helped free up resources. .

But the short answer is, wearing a mask enables us to resume normal life, his logic that everyone will get it is just disgusting, there are many people who want to get out but can't if people don't wear masks.

Furthermore, there's no indication that "everyone will get it" because there's a vaccine in the works. ..
I think there's a false dichotomy going on where it's either "normal" or shutdown. There's a ton of middle ground.

I think the ideal should be to be in the middle ground for the next 6 months in the hope that the vaccines will become available as promised.

Exactly what restrictions should and shouldn't happen in this middle ground are debatable, and should largely be specific for different communities, but I think it's absurd to say that we should do nothing since everyone either got it or will get it.

Offline yaakov35

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #768 on: September 09, 2020, 01:10:17 PM »
I think there's a false dichotomy going on where it's either "normal" or shutdown. There's a ton of middle ground.

I think the ideal should be to be in the middle ground for the next 6 months in the hope that the vaccines will become available as promised.

Exactly what restrictions should and shouldn't happen in this middle ground are debatable, and should largely be specific for different communities, but I think it's absurd to say that we should do nothing since everyone either got it or will get it.

Thats why we have rabbonim and religious leaders who tell us what to do, we don't do whatever we want. The basic principle of Judaism is that there are higher powers,  God and then down the chain to rabbonim. This isn't an i feel we should do this or I read on the cdc website that. Everyone should be listening to their leaders and stop complaining about everyone else.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #769 on: September 09, 2020, 01:11:13 PM »
This conversation has piqued my curiosity. What do Lakewood shuls look like on a regular basis? Loud/quiet davening? Any singing? Do women come? Children?
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Offline Euclid

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Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #770 on: September 09, 2020, 01:16:00 PM »
This conversation has piqued my curiosity. What do Lakewood shuls look like on a regular basis? Loud/quiet davening? Any singing? Do women come? Children?
In general on shabbos (there are plenty of exceptions):
Quiet davening
Singing by lcha dodi, sometimes kedusha
Few women
Young kids only at end of Davening; boys over 8 a large part of Davening

Offline Lurker

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #771 on: September 09, 2020, 01:19:22 PM »
In general on shabbos (there are plenty of exceptions):
Quiet davening
Singing by lcha dodi, sometimes kedusha
Few women
Young kids only at end of Davening; boys over 8 a large part of Davening

And on the Yomim Noraim, the davening stays quiet, no singing, and few women or young children come to shul?
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Offline yelped

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #772 on: September 09, 2020, 01:19:46 PM »
In general on shabbos (there are plenty of exceptions):
Quiet davening
Singing by lcha dodi, sometimes kedusha
Few women
Young kids only at end of Davening; boys over 8 a large part of Davening
Chassidish shuls are obviously different.

Offline cmey

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #773 on: September 09, 2020, 01:58:51 PM »
There are many arguments, #1 everyone getting it at once overwhelmed the healthcare system, most people just don't understand this.

Shutting the country down reduced hospitalizations from car crashes etc it actually helped free up resources. .

But the short answer is, wearing a mask enables us to resume normal life, his logic that everyone will get it is just disgusting, there are many people who want to get out but can't if people don't wear masks.

Furthermore, there's no indication that "everyone will get it" because there's a vaccine in the works. ..
Freed up resources like these?

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/07/851712311/u-s-field-hospitals-stand-down-most-without-treating-any-covid-19-patients

It was a major error and a fiasco. There was no overload. They built 600 million dollars worth of field hospitals and treated basically zero patients. The researchers and models made one of the biggest modeling errors in modern times. It was indirectly responsible for Cuomo and Murphy sending untold numbers of nursing home patients to their deaths.

As for a vaccine anytime soon, keep hoping.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1239581
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 02:26:31 PM by cmey »

Offline Jeremiah

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #774 on: September 09, 2020, 02:04:25 PM »

I think the ideal should be to be in the middle ground for the next 6 months in the hope that the vaccines will become available as promised.
So if it takes longer then we should keep up the restrictions for the inevitable? How long should we have to keep doing this? There has to be an exit strategy. Even if they have a vaccine we don't now hoe effective and how quickly it will work

Offline hllulbh1

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #775 on: September 09, 2020, 02:20:58 PM »
The mask-wearing is not as benign as you make it out to be.

How so? I've worn a mask in public for 5 months, as have millions of people.

Mask wearing when you go into a store is just an annoyance, worse than seatbelts but not worth fighting. Sitting hours in shul davening (or learning) with a mask is very disruptive to a normal davening, especially if one does more than whisper the words. The bahalla created in those schools that are implementing all the CDC or other doctor's meshugasim regarding masks and forms and testing and staggering hallway traffic and toilet wiping for 4 year olds and up, etc. etc. creates a major hindrance to productive learning and is very stressful to students. Imagine a hard of hearing student trying to understand the teacher who is sitting behind a plexiglass, muffled by a mask and can't see her lips or facial expressions. This same obstacle applies to interactions with masked friends. I have heard this first-hand. There are many other consequences to mask wearing (look up dry eyes). So it isn't benign.

If the science has proven that singing is as great a threat to the spread of COVID as is being assumed, then lets all put on masks for singing or choose not to sing with the tzibbur. But all masks all the time for an unknown eternity (yes, it would be no surprise if masks are still the norm in 2023) is an argument that will be very hard to sell to those who don't want to wear them at all.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #776 on: September 09, 2020, 02:31:12 PM »
I love it when people talk about a pandemic like it's optional or controllable. We need to have exit strategies, or sell people on masks, because if we don't, they'll just opt out of Covid. "Sorry, I don't want to participate. Please put me on your Do Not Call list."
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Offline dasmo801

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #777 on: September 09, 2020, 02:34:45 PM »
In general on shabbos (there are plenty of exceptions):
Quiet davening
Singing by lcha dodi, sometimes kedusha
Few women
Young kids only at end of Davening; boys over 8 a large part of Davening

I would add, singing by kel adon in many shuls. (More shuls will sing kel adon than kedusha in my experience.)
Women, depends on the neighborhood really. In a young development most women will be home with their children and there arent many teens as the families are younger. In older areas you will find more women in shul and plenty of teens. Its more a question of practicality than anything else IMHO.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #778 on: September 09, 2020, 02:35:02 PM »
I love it when people talk about a pandemic like it's optional or controllable. We need to have exit strategies, or sell people on masks, because if we don't, they'll just opt out of Covid. "Sorry, I don't want to participate. Please put me on your Do Not Call list."
+100.

Offline Jeremiah

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #779 on: September 09, 2020, 02:35:43 PM »
Great so feel free to buy into all this stuff for the next few years. Others won't