Author Topic: Lakewood covid cases  (Read 85179 times)

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #825 on: September 10, 2020, 12:38:36 AM »
You donít think diverting massive amounts of funding (they spent 270 million just on the 2 field hospitals on Long Island that never treated a single patient) , manpower, equipment, and PPE toward the field hospitals killed people?

Please elaborate how that killed people.

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #826 on: September 10, 2020, 12:50:23 AM »
Instead of field hospitals, they should have equipped LTC facilities with adequate PPE and large scale testing. Positive seniors should have been moved away from the healthy population. The result would have been a fraction of the death toll.

This was the protocol that was supposed to be followed. A SNF was supposed to be following the same protocols and equipped with the same gear as hospitals. They explicitly said that any SNF that could not maintain CDC recommended standards for case isolation should let them know and not accept COVID positive patients. In hindsight, it is possible that this was not a good move.

The reality is that the NYC medical infrastructure is a bunch of individual institutions that do not operate through one central system. If there would have been one central command center coordinating which ambulances bring patients where based on real time capacity data, the field hospitals and ship could have been seamlessly integrated into the network. Being as it is a bunch of private institutions that operate independently of each other, each with their own ambulance network connections developed, this is not what happened. The way it was, supplies and case load were not efficiently distributed.  Therefore, the new unnetworked hospitals were left vacant, while the pre-existing facilities were overwhelmed.

There was and still is not a method for an overriding system to assume control of coordination of hospitals in case of a mass casualty incident. This is a major gap in the system.

Online yaakov35

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #827 on: September 10, 2020, 01:09:00 AM »
It's actually flawless logic. 20 people that work in highly trafficked bank, that wore masks, didn't get it. In the surrounding non-mask wearing community there was at least a 50% infection rate.

Dr. Kassover from Chemed told my mother, that none of the Chemed workers were infected, even though it probably had the most corona spreading people in the whole Lakewood. My parents both wear masks after that conversation.
I know workers who work at highly trafficked supermarkets that  don't wear masks, don't sit 10 feet from other people, don't have a bulletproof plexiglass in front of them and not one got covid. Masks don't make a difference , the end.

Online yaakov35

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #828 on: September 10, 2020, 01:10:55 AM »


In the surrounding non-mask wearing community there was at least a 50% infection rate.



Of people that work at banks? You can't be serious.

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #829 on: September 10, 2020, 01:45:34 AM »
Well the bottom line is they truly thought they were saving untold numbers of younger people by doing so. Isnít that what the liberal notion of health care rationing is all about?

Thereís nothing liberal about using limited resources to save people with the greatest chance of living. Thatís literally triage and the accepted standard worldwide.

But I fail to see how that would be a good excuse for Cuomo.

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #830 on: September 10, 2020, 01:57:42 AM »
This was the protocol that was supposed to be followed. A SNF was supposed to be following the same protocols and equipped with the same gear as hospitals. They explicitly said that any SNF that could not maintain CDC recommended standards for case isolation should let them know and not accept COVID positive patients. In hindsight, it is possible that this was not a good move.

The reality is that the NYC medical infrastructure is a bunch of individual institutions that do not operate through one central system. If there would have been one central command center coordinating which ambulances bring patients where based on real time capacity data, the field hospitals and ship could have been seamlessly integrated into the network. Being as it is a bunch of private institutions that operate independently of each other, each with their own ambulance network connections developed, this is not what happened. The way it was, supplies and case load were not efficiently distributed.  Therefore, the new unnetworked hospitals were left vacant, while the pre-existing facilities were overwhelmed.

There was and still is not a method for an overriding system to assume control of coordination of hospitals in case of a mass casualty incident. This is a major gap in the system.

Very insightful. Havenít seen this explanation before. However, IIRC the field hospitals were not meant for serious COVID patients. It was meant for emptying out wards to free up space in hospitals, or for moderate cases/seniors with COVID. You donít need to coordinate ambulances in real time for that.

Online yaakov35

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #831 on: September 10, 2020, 02:21:31 AM »
Definitely fair to say that in hindsight, some wrong calls were made, especially with regard to sending the covid infected seniors back to the nursing homes.

Now, let's do our part, and not kill any more people.
Some wrong calls? You realize that 25% of the deaths in the us were in ny/nj? And of those over 30% were in nursing homes. Ny/nj have far more deaths then most countries. Some wrong calls? Sometimes I see things here and I need to read it twice because there's no way someone could actually say that.

Offline ShimshonK

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #832 on: September 10, 2020, 02:30:52 AM »
Sometimes I see things here and I need to read it twice because there's no way someone could actually say that.
Masks don't make a difference , the end.

Offline moko

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #833 on: September 10, 2020, 07:52:04 AM »
Thank you for summarizing this thread!
you lose 3 ht's and 1000 posts for quoting that post  :)
Using your g-d given right of stupidity is an option, not a requirement. Please use sparingly.

Offline Afrages6

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #834 on: September 10, 2020, 07:57:53 AM »
This was the protocol that was supposed to be followed. A SNF was supposed to be following the same protocols and equipped with the same gear as hospitals. They explicitly said that any SNF that could not maintain CDC recommended standards for case isolation should let them know and not accept COVID positive patients. In hindsight, it is possible that this was not a good move.

False, that claim comes from the general rule that a nursing home has to be able to provide care for those that it accepts. The problem is that the nursing homes couldnít test anyone as per state rules so they didnít know who was contagious and who wasnít. There was no specific protocol on isolation, itís simply not true no matter how many times coward Zucker says it.

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #835 on: September 10, 2020, 08:15:54 AM »
Very insightful. Havenít seen this explanation before. However, IIRC the field hospitals were not meant for serious COVID patients. It was meant for emptying out wards to free up space in hospitals, or for moderate cases/seniors with COVID. You donít need to coordinate ambulances in real time for that.

You need a centralized system to systemically empty out hospitals. Transferring patients is always a big deal, especially when there is no ambulance availability. There fact that the hospitals were profiting off each patient was not helpful to that end either. At the end of the day, I hate to say it, this accentuates the benefits of socialized medicine. USA healthcare is more than halfway socialized anyways-this way we just get the worst of both worlds.

Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #836 on: September 10, 2020, 09:15:33 AM »

Not using them killed people. If they would have sent the elderly to a field hospital, there most likely would have been many less lives lost in nursing homes. A 33 page essay the governor had written up describes how it is not his fault because he didn't say explicitly that if the nursing homes would refuse the patients they would be hung for treason. They still COULD have even with the underlying threats made. (Ok, not literally treason)
Great so that money was spent on them didn't kill anyone? So you agree that his question is a valid one and just choose to reply from left field?
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #837 on: September 10, 2020, 09:21:33 AM »
Some wrong calls? You realize that 25% of the deaths in the us were in ny/nj? And of those over 30% were in nursing homes. Ny/nj have far more deaths then most countries. Some wrong calls? Sometimes I see things here and I need to read it twice because there's no way someone could actually say that.
According to my math that makes comes out to about 8% of total deaths from an illness at which seniors are at much higher risk. Now that you put it in perspective it dies not sound all that bad.
Just because things turned out a certain way doesn't mean you were right.

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #838 on: September 10, 2020, 09:33:40 AM »
According to my math that makes comes out to about 8% of total deaths from an illness at which seniors are at much higher risk. Now that you put it in perspective it dies not sound all that bad.
Your math is missing something pretty basic
Don't ask stupid questions and you won't get stupid answers

Offline cmey

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #839 on: September 10, 2020, 09:44:55 AM »
According to my math that makes comes out to about 8% of total deaths from an illness at which seniors are at much higher risk. Now that you put it in perspective it dies not sound all that bad.
Thatís because NY did the numbers trick. A nursing home patient who was wheeled out with a pulse is not counted as a nursing home death. In NJ and PA which had the same mandate over 43% and 67% of deaths were from nursing homes. NY likely falls somewhere in between.