Lakewood covid cases

[cmey]

Right, so because this is the Lakewood COVID thread, do you think that Lakewood had a total of 2,000 cases of COVID?

Lakewooders see and are influenced by what is going on nationally.

[Euclid]

Right, so because this is the Lakewood COVID thread, do you think that Lakewood had a total of 2,000 cases of COVID?

3000! Don't shortchange us!

[S209]

https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy

This is an article (by a non medical doctor) who posits that masks are not effective in protecting people from others with a respiratory infection. He does not discuss the wearing of masks as protection from the wearer.

As an aside, he only quotes studies conducted on other diseases, not a single one specifically on COVID (despite thousands of COVID-specific studies having already been conducted). Obviously COVID (of which a large amount of the spread is pre-symptomatic) should be treated differently than the flu (of which it is not)

In an August follow up to his article, the publication tried to defend him from those who had pointed out that all seven of the studies he quoted conclude that masks do work, even as protection against other illnesses. While they admit he seemed to cherry pick data from studies that actually concluded the exact opposite of what he claimed, they maintain that there isn’t enough evidence that it is in the public’s interest to mandate a broad mask wearing policy.

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/evidence-review-for-the-use-of-facemasks-by-the-public-may6-2020.pdf

This link is blocked, please do share a clickable link if this says what you claim it does. After searching that website I found 3 studies that show the efficacy of face masks, but none against.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-1342

Here is a quote from the pre-print you linked to (from April 6)

The median viral loads after coughs without a mask, with a surgical mask, and with a cotton mask were 2.56 log copies/mL, 2.42 log copies/mL, and 1.85 log copies/mL, respectively.

So basically, the study shows the wearing of a mask by an infected person does reduce transmission of COVID-19. And then it was retracted by the authors for detection issues upon peer-review.

https://fee.org/articles/new-study-casts-more-doubt-on-effectiveness-of-masks-in-preventing-covid-19-spread/

This is just an article that quotes the retracted study above which, again, shows that wearing a mask reduces transmission

There is so much more.

Is there? Please do share. You still have yet to show a single source that

Please post one scientific or medical source that claims masks are completely ineffective in reducing the spread of COVID-19 from an infected individual.

[S209]

Lakewooders see and are influenced by what is going on nationally.

Do you understand my point?

Nobody is denying that hospitals are light years better at treating/dealing with COVID patients than the blindsided, overwhelmed, understaffed facilities in March.

[aygart]

All of the mask advocates here are thinking that by yelling facts loud enough it will get people to comply. You need to review the ABCs of influencing people.

Another point is that until you stop ignoring or downplaying the discomfort that many apparently feel when wearing masks you are going to get tuned out.

[shaulyaakov]

All of the mask advocates here are thinking that by yelling facts loud enough it will get people to comply. You need to review the ABCs of influencing people.

Another point is that until you stop ignoring or downplaying the discomfort that many apparently feel when wearing masks you are going to get tuned out.

Public health leaders should ensure that their messaging is good so that people listen. That doesn't absolve people from not listening in the first place.

[aygart]

Public health leaders should ensure that their messaging is good so that people listen. That doesn't absolve people from not listening in the first place.

Agreed, but it is unreasonable to be expecting people to do their own research to go against "what everyone is doing". If anything what everyone is doing will override research. This is from the ABCs of persuasion.

[cmey]

https://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2020/09/letter-lakewood-roshei-yeshivo-and.html?m=1

[S209]

Agreed, but it is unreasonable to be expecting people to do their own research to go against "what everyone is doing". If anything what everyone is doing will override research. This is from the ABCs of persuasion.

You’re right, in order to convince the masses to comply the messaging is key, but in a factual debate I’d expect some more intellectual honesty

[Euclid]

https://hefkervelt.blogspot.com/2020/09/letter-lakewood-roshei-yeshivo-and.html?m=1

@Yard sale this is the letter I heard about

[chevron]

Agreed, but it is unreasonable to be expecting people to do their own research to go against "what everyone is doing". If anything what everyone is doing will override research. This is from the ABCs of persuasion.

What's uncomfortable?! Wearing a mask for 10 min while you shop?

[aygart]

What's uncomfortable?! Wearing a mask for 10 min while you shop?

That is gonna work fa Shaw

[Yard sale]

@Yard sale this is the letter I heard about

״ובעיקר בנוגע לשער ענינים וכדומה״
Does this translate as “the main concern is potential government interference”?

[aygart]

but in a factual debate I’d expect some more intellectual honesty

Oh is that what this is? I didn't notice that.

[avromie7]

What's uncomfortable?! Wearing a mask for 10 min while you shop?

Oh come on, don't make believe you've never seen anyone demanding everyone wear masks for davening and learning (including yomim noraim).

[Euclid]

״ובעיקר בנוגע לשער ענינים וכדומה״
Does this translate as “the main concern is potential government interference”?

Interesting reading, plausible though.

[Yard sale]

Interesting reading, plausible though.

I wouldn’t think to read it that way without context.

[chevron]

So, all these people flying economy, all wearing masks mostly.. it works apparently or they would ban all air travel.

I just flew RT fll to lax, was fine, 5 hours with a mask.

I bet the lakewood chelmites would wear a mask if given the same fare I got (JetBlue RT fll to lax $51)

People are just baby's. They have this talmudic logic, they need to argue pointless pilpul because they can't otherwise justify their stupidity.

From a Jewish world which has a wardrobe that is entirely uncomfortable all in the name of modesty, and most people March to the tune sung by the leaders

But a mask in the name of public health, eh show me the data!! Show meeeee where does it say so in shulchan aruch!! The mechaber never once mentioned a mask!!

But if you don't wear a hat and jacket in 96 degrees, apikoresssss

I have glasses and live in frikking Miami, my glasses get fogged constantly.

Every store here requires a mask, I limit my in store visits anyways, personally if I order food, I eat in my car mostly though socially distance outdoor dining exists.

For the most part, the discussion isn't about wearing a mask when you walk in the street, it's about doing so indoors in a larger setting

It's also about doing most things outdoors so you can sd and not wear a mask

[shaulyaakov]

Oh come on, don't make believe you've never seen anyone demanding everyone wear masks for davening and learning (including yomim noraim).

I'm going to wear a mask on Yamin noraim as is my entire minyan. It's not so complicated.

[chevron]

I'm going to wear a mask on Yamin noraim as is my entire minyan. It's not so complicated.

Same here, though there's an outdoor minyan I'm not sure if they require masks.

It's davening, the only reason someone doesn't want to wear a mask in shul is if it gets in the way of their talking to a friend, praying never is uncomfortable wearing a mask