Author Topic: Lakewood covid cases  (Read 177082 times)

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1575 on: September 25, 2020, 06:47:18 AM »



Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1576 on: September 25, 2020, 08:31:52 AM »
Whatever the solution, they better figure it out before YK. Fasting can be napalm on a superspreader event if someone sits in the wrong minyan for a few hours.

Is fasting proven to be a known added risk factor for infection?

Offline Lurker

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1577 on: September 25, 2020, 08:44:18 AM »
Is fasting proven to be a known added risk factor for infection?

It is known to lower the immune system. Many rabbonim gave heterim not to fast to people at risk of infection over the previous 3 fasts. YK is a different story, but all efforts should be made to limit the exposure while people are fasting.
When you find yourself agreeing with me more often than not, it's time for a cheshbon hanefesh.

Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1578 on: September 25, 2020, 08:46:20 AM »
In a vacuum perhaps no problem, but not in Lakewood where anything except the most blatant ban of attending minyanim will be ineffective.
-1 The blanket bans pesach time played an oversized role in getting us where we are now. When it is truly a choice between full lockdown and hefkerus it is not a shock that people view it that way.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1579 on: September 25, 2020, 08:47:16 AM »
The organizer of the COVID-free minyan I was planning on attending tested positive for COVID today and it's disbanded...gotta find a new one.
Nobody else can take over with most of the legwork done?
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Offline Afrages6

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1580 on: September 25, 2020, 08:53:15 AM »
-1 The blanket bans pesach time played an oversized role in getting us where we are now. When it is truly a choice between full lockdown and hefkerus it is not a shock that people view it that way.
Exactly. Someone hear said that outdoor minyanim and weddings ended too quickly. But in reality they started too late..

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1581 on: September 25, 2020, 08:57:07 AM »
Exactly. Someone hear said that outdoor minyanim and weddings ended too quickly. But in reality they started too late..
In Bergen county, outdoor started much later and still account for the vast majority of minyanim. There are ways to do both if it's of value...

Offline dasmo801

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1582 on: September 25, 2020, 09:25:26 AM »
Is fasting proven to be a known added risk factor for infection?

Regarding tzom gedalyah, i asked our pediatrician if my Covid+ 18 year old should be fasting. He said as long as she's feeling well there is no risk for her to be fasting.
Google Sheet with Lakewood Covid numbers in profile for those interested.

Offline dasmo801

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1583 on: September 25, 2020, 09:28:37 AM »
From local pediatrician's email update:

As of yesterday (Wednesday) morning, 14 Cholim from Lakewood are in the hospital, with two people on ventilators. These are all "High-Risk" people. Many of the Cholim are elderly, and some are in their 50s with high-risk conditions. Since two mornings ago, the number of hospitalizations has doubled.
Google Sheet with Lakewood Covid numbers in profile for those interested.

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1584 on: September 25, 2020, 09:30:44 AM »
In Bergen county, outdoor started much later and still account for the vast majority of minyanim. There are ways to do both if it's of value...
@aygart I hate to say it but heís right. We keep hearing whining about how strict we were and for now long but in reality we were far *less* strict than many other places who are still managing to halt ois. Unfortunately it says more about what our community is willing and able to tolerate.. the term snowflake comes to mind.

Itís also quite presumptious to say the Rabbanim allowed opening up too late. There were *many* active ongoing cases through April, and thereís every reason to believe that the people currently being infected would have suffered far worse back then, because the hospitals were overwhelmed, understaffed, and deficient in knowledge throughout April.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 09:33:46 AM by S209 »
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Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1585 on: September 25, 2020, 09:31:26 AM »
From local pediatrician's email update:

As of yesterday (Wednesday) morning, 14 Cholim from Lakewood are in the hospital, with two people on ventilators. These are all "High-Risk" people. Many of the Cholim are elderly, and some are in their 50s with high-risk conditions. Since two mornings ago, the number of hospitalizations has doubled.
There is another person on a vent as of this morning for a total of 3 so far, 4 ICU admissions
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Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1586 on: September 25, 2020, 09:35:12 AM »
@aygart I hate to say it but heís right. We keep hearing whining about how strict we were and for now long but in reality we were far *less* strict than many other places who are still managing to halt ois. Unfortunately it says more about what our community is willing and able to tolerate.. the term snowflake comes to mind.

Itís also quite presumptious to say the Rabbanim allowed opening up too late. There were *many* active ongoing cases through April, and thereís every reason to believe that the people currently being infected would have suffered far worse back then, because the hospitals were overwhelmed, understaffed, and deficient in knowledge throughout April.
Firstly it is a very different starting point there and much more contained communities for better or worse. Secondly that has no relevance to whether what I wrote is true.
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Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1587 on: September 25, 2020, 09:40:13 AM »
@aygart I hate to say it but heís right. We keep hearing whining about how strict we were and for now long but in reality we were far *less* strict than many other places who are still managing to halt ois. Unfortunately it says more about what our community is willing and able to tolerate.. the term snowflake comes to mind.

Itís also quite presumptious to say the Rabbanim allowed opening up too late. The hospitals were overwhelmed, understaffed, and deficient in knowledge throughout April and thereís every reason to believe that the people currently being infected would have suffered far worse back then, because there were *many* active ongoing cases through April.
For the record, I think Bergen restarted minyanim too late in retrospect. However, the idea was to wait to see the beginning of the state reopening (outdoor dining, memorial day trips etc), and wait 2 weeks off that to check for a spike. Since it was fine after that, we got the green light for limited minyanim (to ensure that the minyanim themselves were safe), followed by a gradual resumption of indoor davening at some shuls (with masks and distancing).

It's not perfect, and there's still a lot of breaches of protocols going on, but so far, it's mostly holding everything together. Schools is another story.

I do think running any minyanim when hospitals were overrun was a mistake in the communities that decided to do it, because the consequence of a single additional case was magnified.

My opinion is the goal of total shutdowns are to help the medical system, but the goal of social distancing and mask wearing is to protect the population until there's a vaccine. I think those 2 get conflated, and that leads to a misapplication of precautionary measures.

Offline Eb228

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1588 on: September 25, 2020, 10:17:17 AM »
@aygart I hate to say it but heís right. We keep hearing whining about how strict we were and for now long but in reality we were far *less* strict than many other places who are still managing to halt ois. Unfortunately it says more about what our community is willing and able to tolerate.. the term snowflake comes to mind.

Or it says how much more our community values tefilah bbeis kneses/ midrash over outdoors...

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1589 on: September 25, 2020, 10:18:16 AM »
Firstly it is a very different starting point there and much more contained communities for better or worse. Secondly that has no relevance to whether what I wrote is true.
Why is it a different starting point? And while what you said may be true, itís very unfortunate.
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