Author Topic: Lakewood covid cases  (Read 522820 times)

Offline Afrages6

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1580 on: September 25, 2020, 08:53:15 AM »
-1 The blanket bans pesach time played an oversized role in getting us where we are now. When it is truly a choice between full lockdown and hefkerus it is not a shock that people view it that way.
Exactly. Someone hear said that outdoor minyanim and weddings ended too quickly. But in reality they started too late..

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1581 on: September 25, 2020, 08:57:07 AM »
Exactly. Someone hear said that outdoor minyanim and weddings ended too quickly. But in reality they started too late..
In Bergen county, outdoor started much later and still account for the vast majority of minyanim. There are ways to do both if it's of value...

Offline dasmo801

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1582 on: September 25, 2020, 09:25:26 AM »
Is fasting proven to be a known added risk factor for infection?

Regarding tzom gedalyah, i asked our pediatrician if my Covid+ 18 year old should be fasting. He said as long as she's feeling well there is no risk for her to be fasting.

Offline dasmo801

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1583 on: September 25, 2020, 09:28:37 AM »
From local pediatrician's email update:

As of yesterday (Wednesday) morning, 14 Cholim from Lakewood are in the hospital, with two people on ventilators. These are all "High-Risk" people. Many of the Cholim are elderly, and some are in their 50s with high-risk conditions. Since two mornings ago, the number of hospitalizations has doubled.

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1584 on: September 25, 2020, 09:30:44 AM »
In Bergen county, outdoor started much later and still account for the vast majority of minyanim. There are ways to do both if it's of value...
@aygart I hate to say it but he’s right. We keep hearing whining about how strict we were and for now long but in reality we were far *less* strict than many other places who are still managing to halt ois. Unfortunately it says more about what our community is willing and able to tolerate.. the term snowflake comes to mind.

It’s also quite presumptious to say the Rabbanim allowed opening up too late. There were *many* active ongoing cases through April, and there’s every reason to believe that the people currently being infected would have suffered far worse back then, because the hospitals were overwhelmed, understaffed, and deficient in knowledge throughout April.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 09:33:46 AM by S209 »
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Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1585 on: September 25, 2020, 09:31:26 AM »
From local pediatrician's email update:

As of yesterday (Wednesday) morning, 14 Cholim from Lakewood are in the hospital, with two people on ventilators. These are all "High-Risk" people. Many of the Cholim are elderly, and some are in their 50s with high-risk conditions. Since two mornings ago, the number of hospitalizations has doubled.
There is another person on a vent as of this morning for a total of 3 so far, 4 ICU admissions
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Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1586 on: September 25, 2020, 09:35:12 AM »
@aygart I hate to say it but he’s right. We keep hearing whining about how strict we were and for now long but in reality we were far *less* strict than many other places who are still managing to halt ois. Unfortunately it says more about what our community is willing and able to tolerate.. the term snowflake comes to mind.

It’s also quite presumptious to say the Rabbanim allowed opening up too late. There were *many* active ongoing cases through April, and there’s every reason to believe that the people currently being infected would have suffered far worse back then, because the hospitals were overwhelmed, understaffed, and deficient in knowledge throughout April.
Firstly it is a very different starting point there and much more contained communities for better or worse. Secondly that has no relevance to whether what I wrote is true.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1587 on: September 25, 2020, 09:40:13 AM »
@aygart I hate to say it but he’s right. We keep hearing whining about how strict we were and for now long but in reality we were far *less* strict than many other places who are still managing to halt ois. Unfortunately it says more about what our community is willing and able to tolerate.. the term snowflake comes to mind.

It’s also quite presumptious to say the Rabbanim allowed opening up too late. The hospitals were overwhelmed, understaffed, and deficient in knowledge throughout April and there’s every reason to believe that the people currently being infected would have suffered far worse back then, because there were *many* active ongoing cases through April.
For the record, I think Bergen restarted minyanim too late in retrospect. However, the idea was to wait to see the beginning of the state reopening (outdoor dining, memorial day trips etc), and wait 2 weeks off that to check for a spike. Since it was fine after that, we got the green light for limited minyanim (to ensure that the minyanim themselves were safe), followed by a gradual resumption of indoor davening at some shuls (with masks and distancing).

It's not perfect, and there's still a lot of breaches of protocols going on, but so far, it's mostly holding everything together. Schools is another story.

I do think running any minyanim when hospitals were overrun was a mistake in the communities that decided to do it, because the consequence of a single additional case was magnified.

My opinion is the goal of total shutdowns are to help the medical system, but the goal of social distancing and mask wearing is to protect the population until there's a vaccine. I think those 2 get conflated, and that leads to a misapplication of precautionary measures.

Offline Eb228

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1588 on: September 25, 2020, 10:17:17 AM »
@aygart I hate to say it but he’s right. We keep hearing whining about how strict we were and for now long but in reality we were far *less* strict than many other places who are still managing to halt ois. Unfortunately it says more about what our community is willing and able to tolerate.. the term snowflake comes to mind.

Or it says how much more our community values tefilah bbeis kneses/ midrash over outdoors...

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1589 on: September 25, 2020, 10:18:16 AM »
Firstly it is a very different starting point there and much more contained communities for better or worse. Secondly that has no relevance to whether what I wrote is true.
Why is it a different starting point? And while what you said may be true, it’s very unfortunate.
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Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1590 on: September 25, 2020, 10:22:06 AM »
Or it says how much more our community values tefilah bbeis kneses/ midrash and weddings and other simchos and fundraisers/dinners/events and in person in door schooling for children, boys, and girls, and retail stores, and grocery stores, and being able to go to Shul/school/work while sick, all without masks or distancing or limits on attendance over outdoors, with masks, with distancing like those communities...
FTFY

Not sure that argument really holds water
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Offline NTorch

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1591 on: September 25, 2020, 10:36:32 AM »
Whatever the solution, they better figure it out before YK. Fasting can be napalm on a superspreader event if someone sits in the wrong minyan for a few hours.

Fasting when I had COVID really did a number on me and that was only a half fast.

When things started to get bad they were gozeir Yom Kippur Katan as a half day fast for erev Rosh Chodesh Nissan. At the time I was five days into symptoms and I said to myself - I can do this, its half a day and I am stuck at home anyway.

I was so drained and knocked out from fasting until 1 PM that day and the congestion really kicked up again. I spoke to my Rav later in the day about other issues and told him how I was feeling and I got well deserved Mussar for fasting.

Yes Yom Kippur is very different and people should speak with their Rav, but when I read your napalm comment I needed to post my experience.

Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1592 on: September 25, 2020, 11:24:30 AM »
Why is it a different starting point? And while what you said may be true, it’s very unfortunate.
There are so many cultural and structural differences between the two communities.
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Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1593 on: September 25, 2020, 11:29:56 AM »
There are so many cultural and structural differences between the two communities.
True. But it’s worth bearing in mind that the communities in Lakewood/Brooklyn etc. have been by far the *exception* as far as precautions go, not the norm (relative to the secular world, frum communities elsewhere, Israel, the US, NY/NJ etc.)

The notion that it’s about how much we care about tefillah betzibur etc. has little merit as we kept weddings and the like full blown with no precautions, even though anyone with brains could see that there was at least a *chance* that this would eventually cause a rifyon in Torah Utefillah.
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Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1594 on: September 25, 2020, 11:35:58 AM »
If the *only* difference in the precautions related to davening and learning, the argument that that's the overarching factor holds more water.

I can't think of any religious benefit of not wearing a mask in Gourmet Glatt, so color me skeptical.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2020, 12:00:48 PM by shaulyaakov »

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1595 on: September 25, 2020, 12:04:11 PM »
If the *only* difference in the precautions related to davening and learning, the argument that that's the overarching factor holds more water.

I can't think of any religious benefit of not wearing a mask in Gourmet Glatt, so color me skeptical.
FTFY

Not sure that argument really holds water
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Offline Baruch

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1596 on: September 25, 2020, 01:46:08 PM »
You edited out this sentence:


THIS EMAIL IS INTENDED FOR FAMILIES OF KINDER PEDIATRICS

OR OTHER FAMILIES WHO SEEK THE GUIDANCE OF KINDER PEDIATRICS.

PLEASE DO NOT FORWARD THIS EMAIL OR POST IT IN A PUBLIC FORUM.

FAMILIES WHO WISH TO ADD THEIR EMAIL ADDRESS

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Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1597 on: September 25, 2020, 02:16:55 PM »
PRE-YOM KIPPUR STATUS UPDATE
 From Dr. Fenster, MD

You edited out this sentence:


THIS EMAIL IS INTENDED FOR FAMILIES OF KINDER PEDIATRICS

OR OTHER FAMILIES WHO SEEK THE GUIDANCE OF KINDER PEDIATRICS.

PLEASE DO NOT FORWARD THIS EMAIL OR POST IT IN A PUBLIC FORUM.

FAMILIES WHO WISH TO ADD THEIR EMAIL ADDRESS

TO THIS LIST SERVE ARE WELCOME TO DO SO.

+1 and the email address should not be there even without them writing that.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1598 on: September 25, 2020, 02:39:23 PM »
You edited out this sentence:


THIS EMAIL IS INTENDED FOR FAMILIES OF KINDER PEDIATRICS

OR OTHER FAMILIES WHO SEEK THE GUIDANCE OF KINDER PEDIATRICS.

PLEASE DO NOT FORWARD THIS EMAIL OR POST IT IN A PUBLIC FORUM.

FAMILIES WHO WISH TO ADD THEIR EMAIL ADDRESS

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Why wouldn't they want this public?

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1599 on: September 25, 2020, 02:46:38 PM »
A friend of mine who was exposed on Rosh Hashana has been attending work and living life as usual, because “we’re all exposed anyway”. Just tested positive.

Fortunately, his Rav has been refusing him entry to Shul. So we’re all safe. B”h.
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