Author Topic: Lakewood covid cases  (Read 522662 times)

Offline SayWhat

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1880 on: September 30, 2020, 11:05:23 PM »
https://www.thelakewoodscoop.com/news/2020/09/audio-message-from-lakewood-igud-harabanim-for-covid-matters.html

It's almost as if they like playing from behind.

"Always wear a mask in public places like stores & crowded streets"

I see they are avoiding, G-d forbid, to suggest wearing a mask in Shul. I guess this is similar to Brooklyn - Just wear a mask in public to avoid creating a bigger chilul hashem than has already been created - But in the privacy of shuls feel free to not wear a mask. 

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1881 on: September 30, 2020, 11:07:39 PM »
Obviously every case is different but at this point in Lakewood there's a big argument to be made against testing in general. Have Jews  ever been so condemned in the USA?
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline hllulbh1

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1882 on: September 30, 2020, 11:09:15 PM »
To bring down the positivity rate

I hear why that may help their case, but...the message was apparently stating that they want to comply with the government’s will. If all they are doing is playing the system, why present it as following the will of the government? And why say it on the record (for Goodness sakes!)? They must have a different goal?

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1883 on: September 30, 2020, 11:12:07 PM »
I hear why that may help their case, but...the message was apparently stating that they want to comply with the government’s will. If all they are doing is playing the system, why present it as following the will of the government? And why say it on the record (for Goodness sakes!)? They must have a different goal?
They hinted it, while maintaining the appearance of trying to work with the government. For now, they want to keep up the facade that they are working together with the Murphy administration.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1884 on: September 30, 2020, 11:16:37 PM »
This is a disgrace.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1885 on: October 01, 2020, 12:18:28 AM »
This is a disgrace.
It's so childish.
These are Rabbonim who listened to what the askanim and doctors had to say and decided on a course of action. Rav Uri Deutch and Rav Chaim Meir Roth are well know and respected individuals. How about calling them on the phone to discuss instead of calling them names on a public forum.

Offline Euclid

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Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1886 on: October 01, 2020, 12:30:18 AM »
These are Rabbonim who listened to what the askanim and doctors had to say and decided on a course of action. Rav Uri Deutch and Rav Chaim Meir Roth are well know and respected individuals. How about calling them on the phone to discuss instead of calling them names on a public forum.
Has any bit of the Igud's course of action been successful?

Perhaps I should talk to them; however the frustration of countless missteps on their part has reached a point where I don't feel like I trust them to represent me.

(Thinking that it's time for me to move on from this town.)

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1887 on: October 01, 2020, 12:41:14 AM »
Has any bit of the Igud's course of action been successful?

Perhaps I should talk to them; however the frustration of countless missteps on their part has reached a point where I don't feel like I trust them to represent me.

(Thinking that it's time for me to move on from this town.)
It’s not what I would chose to do, but indications are that these Rabbonim are having real discussions and taking medical and political considerations into account, and are making decisions based on their fact finding. They deserve more than to be called childish. I certainly identify more easily with the positions taken on DDF but should DDF be deciding policy for the town?

Offline ari3

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1888 on: October 01, 2020, 12:42:42 AM »

Perhaps I should talk to them; however the frustration of countless missteps on their part has reached a point where I don't feel like I trust them to represent me.

You don't need to trust them to represent you, you don't need to have them represent you at all. You don't even need to agree with them. You still shouldn't call them childish.

Quote
(Thinking that it's time for me to move on from this town.)

Why do you think the next place is going to be better. (if their covid policies might be more to your liking something else will irk you)

Offline Euclid

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1889 on: October 01, 2020, 12:45:22 AM »
It’s not what I would chose to do, but indications are that these Rabbonim are having real discussions and taking medical and political considerations into account, and are making decisions based on their fact finding. They deserve more than to be called childish. I certainly identify more easily with the positions taken on DDF but should DDF be deciding policy for the town?
Mussar taken. You're right. Wrong terminology on my part. (I didn't mean they were childish; rather that this plan seems childish.)

But you're right - it was wrong; I definitely did (do?) have major respect for R CM Roth (don't know R Deutsch) - I should give them more benefit of doubt. He's been logical and level headed throughout the time I've known him.

(I'm still very frustrated though. ;) )

Offline Euclid

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1890 on: October 01, 2020, 12:46:54 AM »
You don't need to trust them to represent you, you don't need to have them represent you at all. You don't even need to agree with them. You still shouldn't call them childish.

Why do you think the next place is going to be better. (if their covid policies might be more to your liking something else will irk you)
You're right. As I mentioned above, I was speaking emotionally. See my post above this - I was wrong.

Offline Moshe123

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1891 on: October 01, 2020, 12:58:26 AM »
By the way, I'm wondering where the eleventh of the aseres hadibros "לא תעשו לך איבה" disappeared.

In the first round, Lakewood was very busy with it.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1892 on: October 01, 2020, 01:37:11 AM »
By the way, I'm wondering where the eleventh of the aseres hadibros "לא תעשו לך איבה" disappeared.

In the first round, Lakewood was very busy with it.

Disappeared down the same rabbit hole as Pikuach nefesh (and it's offspring safek pikuach nefesh), hishtadlus, veahavta lere'acha, etc. Seems like lots of Torah was forgotten when we were locked out of the BM.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1893 on: October 01, 2020, 01:56:13 AM »
They hinted it, while maintaining the appearance of trying to work with the government. For now, they want to keep up the facade that they are working together with the Murphy administration.

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/09/lakewoods-covid-19-positivity-rate-hits-27-as-cases-surge-well-above-statewide-average-of-3.html

From the article "Callahan said local police in Lakewood had seen multiple images of worshipers not wearing masks indoors."
Take a look at any the local publications, whatsapp statuses, you'll see many images of Lakewood residents indoors without masks or social distancing, including many community leaders. This is the worst kept secret, the government knows exactly what's going on, and is biting it's tongue not to respond too harshly (I'm not sure why they're showing such great discipline, I suspect backdoor politics play a part.)

Meanwhile Lakewood's response is to double down on an already exposed bluff and continue everything as usual. I can't fathom how the gov will take this lightly.
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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1894 on: October 01, 2020, 02:03:40 AM »
Al eileh ani boichiya
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1895 on: October 01, 2020, 05:00:46 AM »
By the way, I'm wondering where the eleventh of the aseres hadibros "לא תעשו לך איבה" disappeared.

In the first round, Lakewood was very busy with it.
The people that were very busy with it the first time around did not have a great reception last time and feel that they don’t have the will to go through it again this time.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1896 on: October 01, 2020, 05:03:50 AM »
From the article "Callahan said local police in Lakewood had seen multiple images of worshipers not wearing masks indoors."
Take a look at any the local publications, whatsapp statuses, you'll see many images of Lakewood residents indoors without masks or social distancing, including many community leaders. This is the worst kept secret, the government knows exactly what's going on, and is biting it's tongue not to respond too harshly (I'm not sure why they're showing such great discipline, I suspect backdoor politics play a part.)

There were those advocating for an immediate all out response but the Governor did not choose yo go that route.

Offline Proisrael

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1897 on: October 01, 2020, 08:09:18 AM »
From the article "Callahan said local police in Lakewood had seen multiple images of worshipers not wearing masks indoors."
Take a look at any the local publications, whatsapp statuses, you'll see many images of Lakewood residents indoors without masks or social distancing, including many community leaders. This is the worst kept secret, the government knows exactly what's going on, and is biting it's tongue not to respond too harshly (I'm not sure why they're showing such great discipline, I suspect backdoor politics play a part.)

Meanwhile Lakewood's response is to double down on an already exposed bluff and continue everything as usual. I can't fathom how the gov will take this lightly.

These whatsapp statuses are mind blowing. LNN and The Lakewood Scoop post dozens of pictures weekly of no masks and no social distancing at all. Something has to give soon.

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1898 on: October 01, 2020, 08:34:37 AM »
Disappeared down the same rabbit hole as Pikuach nefesh (and it's offspring safek pikuach nefesh), hishtadlus, veahavta lere'acha, etc. Seems like lots of Torah was forgotten when we were locked out of the BM.

Don't underestimate the anti-vaxxer influence and how that will affect any public statement. Until someone figures out a way to deal with that things will not proactively change. When you combine that with the overreach from the first wave it makes people more receptive to lenient guidance until cv it is already disastrous and way too late.

I have said this before, but have a feeling that many are not understanding the depth of it.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #1899 on: October 01, 2020, 08:38:06 AM »
... it makes people more receptive to lenient guidance even though r'l it is already disastrous and way too late.

FTFY
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