Author Topic: Lakewood covid cases  (Read 171181 times)

Offline dasmo801

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3690 on: February 13, 2021, 10:43:37 PM »

Case in point, my kids were exposed to my wife, and we called Dr. Shanik who maintains that they would need to wait till the end of her 10 day quarantine, and then another 14 days. Now on some level this makes sense, in theory although they are living in one house and constantly exposed to her, it is still theoretically possible that they would only get it from her at the very end of her quarantine period, and then have their own 14 day incubation. But this is not very realistic, and its not shocking that almost no one in Lakewood would follow this. I don't think it is that much of a stretch for me to say that I believe that my kids would have caught it earlier and therefore can leave quarantine earlier, and while there may some risk there (more than staying in quarantine for 24 days) it becomes more in the realm of typical risks we all live with. (In fact, in my case, testing reveled all my kids as positive well before the ten days...) I would consider myself in the 98th percentile (or higher) in my community in terms of taking covid seriously, but I think you need to strike some kind of a balance to try and get the overall result of mitigation efforts higher rather than militantly insist on only the strictest guidelines (which to be fair, come from professionals who admit that they are not sure and are constantly adjusting their advice as well). Just my two cents.....

I would just point out that it's not so far fetched. My wife and I were positive, kids were exposed to us and tested negative on day 7 of their quarantine and developed symptoms on day 9. 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 10:46:56 PM by dasmo801 »
Google Sheet with Lakewood Covid numbers in profile for those interested.

Offline iwlw2

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3691 on: February 13, 2021, 10:58:08 PM »
I would just point out that it's not so far fetched. My wife and I were positive, kids were exposed to us and tested negative on day 7 of their quarantine and developed symptoms on day 9.
OK, what I was suggesting is that after 10 days of quarantine I feel it is pretty safe to assume (if they are tested after day 10) that they would be safe. Your experience does not contradict that.
Also, my general point was not that it's impossible, just that it may be a necessary evil to strike some kind of balance at a point when the risk would seem to be at least reduced.

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3692 on: February 13, 2021, 11:02:49 PM »
OK, what I was suggesting is that after 10 days of quarantine I feel it is pretty safe to assume (if they are tested after day 10) that they would be safe. Your experience does not contradict that.
TL;DR your whole post, but I will say Israel also considers 2 negative tests and 10 days of quarantine sufficient for somebody who was exposed to a Covid positive case.

I think the 10 days would start from the last contact though...

I also think Derech Hatorah is to be מחמיר like the more stringent mainstream opinions in the medical community and public health authorities that say 14 days is required (some say 21), if not for 100% quarantine, at least for staying away from large indoor gatherings & being more careful with masking.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 11:16:11 PM by PlatinumGuy »
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3693 on: February 13, 2021, 11:24:42 PM »
OK, what I was suggesting is that after 10 days of quarantine I feel it is pretty safe to assume (if they are tested after day 10) that they would be safe. Your experience does not contradict that.
Also, my general point was not that it's impossible, just that it may be a necessary evil to strike some kind of balance at a point when the risk would seem to be at least reduced.
10 days from last exposure is CDC recommendation

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3694 on: February 13, 2021, 11:36:14 PM »
Out of 7,000,000,000 in the world, how many Covid+ patients were caught flying and how many of them were frum Jews?

Do you have numbers on this?
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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3695 on: February 13, 2021, 11:37:37 PM »
10 days from last exposure is CDC recommendation
So for somebody living in the same household and exposed daily, it would be 10 days after the last time the Covid carrier was considered contagious (14/10 days etc)?
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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3696 on: February 13, 2021, 11:39:45 PM »
I did not say all and I did not say deserved.
I said more frum Jews proportionally than non-frum Jews.
I said they hate us because of it, I did not say we deserve to be hated for it. The fact that somebody does something wrong, doesn't mean they don't have a reason for it.
It doesn't, they are two different examples of people prioritizing their personal interest over the collective good of the rest of society. (one is clearly infinitely more egregious than the other)

The Canadian government has called for people not to travel unless they absolutely must. The Finance Minister of Ontario resigned after it became known he travelled for vacation, even though he complied with all quarantine requirements.

Going to Miami for vacation is a perusal interest. Staying home is the collective interest so as not to bring Covid back from somewhere it is 15x more prevalent.

I'm not saying every person who goes to Miami is wrong, I'm saying it's an example of drawing the balance between the personal interest and collective interest differently then the other 90% of non-Jews, and they don't appreciate it.

Where do Canadian travel restrictions come in here?

I can tell you that in FLL in Jan there were many full flights with ZERO outwardly visible Jews on them
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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3697 on: February 13, 2021, 11:40:48 PM »
So for somebody living in the same household and exposed daily, it would be 10 days after the last time the Covid carrier was considered contagious (14/10 days etc)?
Yup. Not fun, but that's what you gotta do. Can be longer if different family members get it during those time periods....

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3698 on: February 13, 2021, 11:51:15 PM »
Do you have numbers on this?
Here's one case too many, and I believe there have been several since, I'm not going to look for them. I agree the media is out for blood and amplifies anti-Semitic and anti-frum news. 


Where do Canadian travel restrictions come in here?

I can tell you that in FLL in Jan there were many full flights with ZERO outwardly visible Jews on them
I was referring to flights arriving in Canada, which contain an outsized quantity of Canadian Jews. Nobody disputes it, and in part is due to legitimate reasons like more international family.

Florida has ~2.5m+ pax landing every month (July is the latest month this information was available). Canada has less than 1m. It's a very different situation.
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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3699 on: February 13, 2021, 11:54:20 PM »
Yup. Not fun, but that's what you gotta do. Can be longer if different family members get it during those time periods....
Yeah I just didn't wanna be the guy to say it...

The CDC says 10 days but explicitly says 14 days is ideal and the only reason they say 10 is bc people wouldn't listen Imagine if one was told meat isn't really Kosher but they can be meikel because people won't listen if they say it's assur... Endangering people is infinitely worse than eating trief.
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3700 on: February 13, 2021, 11:57:01 PM »
Yeah I just didn't wanna be the guy to say it...

The CDC says 10 days but explicitly says 14 days is ideal and the only reason they say 10 is bc people wouldn't listen Imagine if one was told meat isn't really Kosher but they can be meikel because people won't listen if they say it's assur... Endangering people is infinitely worse than eating trief.
Not quite the same. They say that the risk is lower after 10, and when weighed against the possibility of non-compliance, they feel that the risk is low enough to justify this guidance. I agree that one should be mqchmir if at all possible (obviously, wearing a mask properly should be a davar pashut)

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3701 on: February 13, 2021, 11:59:26 PM »
Not quite the same. They say that the risk is lower after 10, and when weighed against the possibility of non-compliance, they feel that the risk is low enough to justify this guidance. I agree that one should be mqchmir if at all possible (obviously, wearing a mask properly should be a davar pashut)
That's what I meant to say. Thank you for articulating it better.
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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3702 on: February 14, 2021, 12:06:21 AM »
Here's one case too many, and I believe there have been several since, I'm not going to look for them. I agree the media is out for blood and amplifies anti-Semitic and anti-frum news. 

I was referring to flights arriving in Canada, which contain an outsized quantity of Canadian Jews. Nobody disputes it, and in part is due to legitimate reasons like more international family.

Florida has ~2.5m+ pax landing every month (July is the latest month this information was available). Canada has less than 1m. It's a very different situation.
You made a claim that frum Jews were disproportionately represented among those caught traveling COVID+ and this is all you have to back it up? "one case too many" and you "believe there were several since"? That is DISGUSTING! This is a great example of what @Yehuda57 was referring to.

Where did you make clear that you were referring to one very specific subset of flights? That is also ridiculous and another great example. Cherry picked data. (as an aside, I wonder how many were people coming to the states to get the vaccine that is basically non-existent in Canada?)
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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3703 on: February 14, 2021, 12:31:37 AM »

Where did you make clear that you were referring to one very specific subset of flights?

It was as clear as day in my original comment to anybody who didn't read it with a preconceived conclusion.

Looks at planes flying into Montreal and Toronto, where Frum Jews are less than 1% of the population. MIA-YYZ last week had 33 pax of which 25+ were frum, and it’s a known phenomenon going on in many flights. Airport staff are very well aware of it and are asking uncomfortable questions.

You made a claim that frum Jews were disproportionately represented among those caught traveling COVID+ and this is all you have to back it up?

1 case is indeed a disproportional representation. There were 100m Covid positive people. Not more than 100 of them made the news for flying Covid+.

1 frum person being there is already more than our proportion of society, and as blinded as you may be, we all know there were more than 1. There is no point for me to look for more stories when you'll just respond with a snarky comment without even attempting to defend your position, as you tend to do when you lose arguments.

(as an aside, I wonder how many were people coming to the states to get the vaccine that is basically non-existent in Canada?)
I explicitly said much of the travel is 100% legitimate. But, this was going on before there were vaccines. Airport officials in YUL & YYZ were asking why so many Jews are traveling. I heard many first hand reports.
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3704 on: February 14, 2021, 12:33:50 AM »
It was as clear as day in my original comment to anybody who didn't read it with a preconceived conclusion.

1 case is indeed a disproportional representation. There were 100m Covid positive people. Not more than 100 of them made the news for flying Covid+.

1 frum person being there is already more than our proportion of society, and as blinded as you may be, we all know there were more than 1.
I explicitly said much of the travel is 100% legitimate. But, this was going on before there were vaccines. Airport officials in YUL & YYZ were asking why so many Jews are traveling. I heard many first hand reports.

Thinks making the news doesn't constitute data. People publish things because they want to make a point. We don't even know if that tweet was true, but even if it was true it was published with an agenda and you're playing right into it.