Author Topic: Lakewood covid cases  (Read 531064 times)

Offline Euclid

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3860 on: February 21, 2021, 02:21:56 PM »
If anyone is interested, The Voice has an interview with Dr. Dovid Friedman, Chemed CEO, on page 258.
https://thevoiceoflakewood.com/current-issue/
Regarding stillborns rumored upthread, he mentions 3 cases reported by a local OB.
Thanks for reminding me about this :)

Now we have a baseline of what's typical - says 3 stillborns is "very uncommon".





Offline Dan

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3861 on: February 21, 2021, 02:30:45 PM »
In less important news, I tested positive for antibodies, though the test does not say a number. I also tested negative for Covid, which is good to see after tested positive last month.

All my kids tested negative for Covid, and only my youngest tested positive for antibodies.

Quarantine week #2 of the year begins, but this time I'm basically on my own. I should be thankful, though, because it could ch"v be worse...
Take an antibody titer test from labcorp?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline coffeebean

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3862 on: February 21, 2021, 02:35:33 PM »
If anyone is interested, The Voice has an interview with Dr. Dovid Friedman, Chemed CEO, on page 258.
https://thevoiceoflakewood.com/current-issue/
Regarding stillborns rumored upthread, he mentions 3 cases reported by a local OB.
Far from the 40 weekly cases mentioned above

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Offline Lurker

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3863 on: February 21, 2021, 02:49:26 PM »
Far from the 40 weekly cases mentioned above

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Yes, BH, but that's also only from a single OB.
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Offline Euclid

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Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3864 on: February 21, 2021, 03:12:50 PM »
Far from the 40 weekly cases mentioned above

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I intentionally didn't mention the 40 cases in my initial post, I only heard that number from 1 source. I only posted it once pushed for numbers and I added a disclaimer.

This still doesn't contradict a spike in stillborns (if anything it confirms it, though small sample size of 1 OB).
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 03:23:25 PM by Euclid »

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3865 on: February 21, 2021, 03:50:29 PM »
Yes, BH, but that's also only from a single OB.

You would need at least 13-14 OBs to report the same unusually high number (G-d forbid) to reach ~40. Are there even that many OBs servicing the Lakewood community?

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3866 on: February 21, 2021, 03:59:53 PM »
You would need at least 13-14 OBs to report the same unusually high number (G-d forbid) to reach ~40. Are there even that many OBs servicing the Lakewood community?
Yes.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3867 on: February 21, 2021, 04:01:21 PM »
You would need at least 13-14 OBs to report the same unusually high number (G-d forbid) to reach ~40. Are there even that many OBs servicing the Lakewood community?

My point wasn't that the number really is 40, c"v. It was only to point out that the number most likely isn't just 3, seeing as this is just from one OB.
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Offline biobook

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3868 on: February 21, 2021, 04:08:17 PM »
If anyone is interested, The Voice has an interview with Dr. Dovid Friedman, Chemed CEO, on page 258.
https://thevoiceoflakewood.com/current-issue/
Regarding stillborns rumored upthread, he mentions 3 cases reported by a local OB.

Good article! 
There's one small point that surprised me, but it's not clear from the article whether this was written by Dr Friedman, or if it was an oral conversation and actually written by an editor at The Voice. 

It says "Studies seem to show that approximately 0.1% of people can get it a second time."
Might be more accurate to say "Studies seem to show that approximately 0.1% of people have gotten it a second time."
We don't know yet whether the 99.9% who haven't gotten it twice have lifetime immunity, or if it they can, in fact, get it a second time after a year or two or three.

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3869 on: February 21, 2021, 04:10:36 PM »
Yes.

I meant including those part of groups because OBs usually tend to practice in groups or partnerships so that there is round the clock coverage in the hospitals and for office visits. Therefore,  I would assume each group would be reporting numbers as a group vs each individual OB reporting even as part of a group of 2 to 10 (or whatever) OBs.

If there are that many groups and each one רחמנא ליצלן reports such highly uncommon numbers that would be beyond disastrous to say the least   :-[.

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3870 on: February 21, 2021, 04:30:04 PM »
I meant including those part of groups because OBs usually tend to practice in groups or partnerships so that there is round the clock coverage in the hospitals and for office visits. Therefore,  I would assume each group would be reporting numbers as a group vs each individual OB reporting even as part of a group of 2 to 10 (or whatever) OBs.

If there are that many groups and each one רחמנא ליצלן reports such highly uncommon numbers that would be beyond disastrous to say the least   :-[.
There are 8 OB/GYN groups servicing Lakewood that I am familiar with. I’m sure there are more with Lakewood patients. CHEMED, Surowitz, Kaufman, Belkin, Tal, WLB, Giovine, OGOA.

Now might be a good time to point out that Lakewood is one of the top 5 largest municipality in NJ and the youngest municipality in NJ.. which means there are a lot of babies being born k”h.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 04:33:16 PM by S209 »
Quote from: YitzyS
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Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3871 on: February 21, 2021, 04:43:33 PM »
which means there are a lot of babies being born k”h.

B"h. Exactly. And we want them born alive and kicking. Not ch"v stillborn. Let's hope this is a one-off report.

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3872 on: February 21, 2021, 04:56:36 PM »
There are 8 OB/GYN groups servicing Lakewood that I am familiar with. I’m sure there are more with Lakewood patients. CHEMED, Surowitz, Kaufman, Belkin, Tal, WLB, Giovine, OGOA.

Now might be a good time to point out that Lakewood is one of the top 5 largest municipality in NJ and the youngest municipality in NJ.. which means there are a lot of babies being born k”h.
There are many more than those.
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Offline biobook

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3873 on: February 21, 2021, 05:12:36 PM »
Synthetic antibodies would leave your body within a few days.
The sources I looked at seem to agree that natural IgG antibodies have a half-life of about 21 days, and monoclonal antibodies are similar (range of 10-30 days).  This is antibodies in general, I didn't find something specific for Covid antibodies.

This means that immediately after an infusion of monoclonal antibodies, the antibody level in your blood will be at its highest.  Three weeks after infusion, it'll be half that, and six weeks after infusion it'll be 25% of the original peak (that is, another half will be gone), etc. 

It's similar after you get Covid - Of the antibodies produced at that time half will be gone after three weeks, 75% gone after 6 weeks, etc.

But the difference is that during the natural infection, the B cells have been stimulated to become antibody-producing factories, and so after the first antibody molecules are gone, the B cells can keep churning out more antibodies.  One particular antibody molecule is gone, but an identical one takes its place, so the antibody level measured in the tests remains high for longer than three weeks.  With the infusion of antibodies, the B cells haven't been activated, so you get just that one helpful surge of antibodies, and when it's gone, it's gone.

Now, the truth is, I'm not sure if this applies to someone like YitzyS who was probably infected for a few days before getting the infusion.  Maybe some B cells were activated, and maybe his current antibody level is actually a mixture of antibodies that he made and those that were infused?  Could be.  Or maybe the infused antibodies are so high that they send a signal to the B cells that "We've got this covered.  Don't need you." and the B cells inactivate?  I don't know, and I don't know if it's been studied, but I don't think it's important.

What's important is this:  The reason they recommend waiting is because they're concerned that if the vaccine is given soon after the antibody infusion, the vaccine may not be as effective.  What the mRNA vaccine does is stimulate your body to make Spike protein, which is similar to the Spike protein on the virus.  When the B cells and T cells see that Spike protein, they're "fooled" into thinking it's the virus, and they react by producing many more B and T cells, churning out antibodies, and creating the memory B and T cells that are important for long-lasting immunity.  But the infusion contained antibodies to that same Spike protein and they will glom onto Spike proteins and neutralize them before they have the chance to be seen by the B and T cells.  This would be good, of course, if the Spike were on a virus, and the antibodies were neutralizing the virus.  But here, the antibodies would be neutralizing the protein that's trying to activate your immunity. 

Offline S209

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3874 on: February 23, 2021, 10:09:38 PM »
From a Lakewood Dr.’s pre-Purim COVID email:

Quote
The strain that is dominant in Lakewood right now is known as the British Variant. There are other strains that are dominant in other parts of the world. They also have the same mutation (change) as the British Variant that allows them to infect people more easily. However, some have an additional mutation that causes the virus to be able to repel the antibodies that a person develops after being infected by the original COVID-19 virus.

Of concern, the South African Variant is such a strain. In areas where this strain is dominant, the Monoclonal Antibody therapy that prevents serious disease and saves lives here in Lakewood simply does not work against the virus there.
Quote from: YitzyS
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Offline dasmo801

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3875 on: February 23, 2021, 11:05:28 PM »
From a Lakewood Dr.’s pre-Purim COVID email:
When I read the email I assumed that this is just conjecture.

Offline Euclid

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Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3876 on: February 23, 2021, 11:14:30 PM »
When I read the email I assumed that this is just conjecture.
Which part?

It was explained to me that the mutation caused one of the cells to invert its electrical charge (positive to negative or vice versa), which causes the spike protein to repel the antibodies instead of allowing the antibodies to glom onto the spikes.

Offline Euclid

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3877 on: February 23, 2021, 11:22:09 PM »
TLS posted this letter from Torah Umesorah. Not sure which doctor is behind the information.


Offline AsherO

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3878 on: February 23, 2021, 11:26:43 PM »
Which part?

It was explained to me that the mutation caused one of the cells to invert its electrical charge (positive to negative or vice versa), which causes the spike protein to repel the antibodies instead of allowing the antibodies to glom onto the spikes.

Doesn’t mean this doctor has any proof/evidence that it’s a variant that’s prevalent in Lakewood.

Your explanation on E484K seems to refer to what’s described here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-science-idUSKBN2AM2GQ
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Lakewood covid cases
« Reply #3879 on: February 23, 2021, 11:38:25 PM »
TLS posted this letter from Torah Umesorah. Not sure which doctor is behind the information.


That letter doesn’t say anything about what’s happening in Lakewood now. And that silly wordplay at then end about poly- vs. mono- is misleading and unscientific. The vaccines are also likely to be less effective against variants, but the reason to prefer vaccines over monoclonal antibodies is because being sick isn’t a good thing and should be avoided when possible, not because vaccines are more effective.
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