Author Topic: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa  (Read 69070 times)

Offline Jo 08701

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2015
  • Posts: 78
  • Total likes: 14
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New Jersey
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #690 on: February 16, 2021, 02:43:19 AM »
I hope this is the right forum, to vent all my ספיקות.
As I am looking already for quite sometime into the South Florida housing market, as an option to own a vacation house which should eventually cover itself through rentals over peak seasons. I found that North Miami Beach is out of the budget already.
Some background: I am Chasidish, with some strict values, for example i need a walking distance men mikva, especially for shabbos morning. Upto 1 hour walking should be good. I walked sometimes when I went on vacation, more than an hour per direction for טבילת עזרא.
Minyan I am ok with Chasidish, Chabad, Yeshivish/Sefard/Ashkenaz.
Food, I am not at the age anymore that I should have a must for real fancy restaurants. But I do need a supermarket with basic kosher food with heimeishe hechsheirim.
Since I live in Lakewood in a decent size house, I am not looking to go there Pesach/Succos. As of now I can't even go even I want, for many reasons.
So therefore i have no problem on counting on the rental income.
Over the Winter, in our current situation we won't go down more than once over the winter, kids are in school, young kids, etc.
Over the summer we are looking to spend there the Aug month, as we drove down over the last few years, and we really loved it. Yes in the hot weather, but the private pool and the quietness is very good.
I remember when some Chasidish people moved from NY to North Miami Beach about 15 years ago and houses were cheap. At that time approximately many chasidish people bought there for a vacation home, and they are really having a use of it now, and are able to rent it out for top money during season.
My question is, is there chances that Tampa might be in the same position? Some Chasidish people moving from NY, that will make it a nice size OOT Community with their local grocery etc.
I understand that I can't count on getting 400 a night during the whole winter, but how about 200 a night? Also for Pesach/Succos I believe I can count on 5000 each.
Now the pros and cons in my eyes for both options:
Miami PROs
Higher nightly rate and easier to rent out.
More kosher options which makes it cheaper for me when visiting.
Established, no risk, no worries not to have minyan, etc.
The Community is full fledged already and not dependent on vacationers.
They are in the middle of the stages to open chasidish schools. Hence I can see my kids live there when they marry.
TAMPA pros.
Cheaper upfront price, new construction.
Less exposure to Flooding, less risk even with global warming. (Remember I am planning to use it more in 40 years from now.)

Both options have cheap flight options.

Tampa Cons:
Risk if this will be working out, but I do believe if there will be 100 chasidish families that will guarantee it a mikva, kosher grocery.
As of now, there is no market for kosher villas there.

Here are some questions which I wonna have input from others who know answers.
How about the weather in the summer in Tampa, was never there, i was in Miami and it wasnt that bad as some are trying to portray it. In my eyes, על טעם וריח אין להתוכיח.

Many say that Miami metro is the main attraction the food. Since i am not a foodie guy, i can't real answer that. But I wonder why people don't go to Tampa/Sarasota/St. Petersburg areas for vacation, atleast on the same level as Cancun which also don't have many food options.

Now, I did spoke to the organizers, and they have no problem that some people should buy for vacation homes. I do believe it will only help them that some people should have vacation houses there. That will bring free advertising for their Community, all the home owners will have to advertise their houses for the heimeishe Community. It will also bring weekly new faces to the Community and more outside money into the local heimeishe economy.
Those visitors will also become ambassadors for the Community, back home in Tri State area.
Vacationers usually spend more money in Grocery for expensive items, that will make it more economically viable to bring it down those stuff.
Now if the demand would be more than supply, like for example Linden NJ,  I understand that it wouldn't be healthy to have outside investors to drive up prices. And I would never think of buying in such a climate, ואהבת לרעך כמוך and I am not even in the real estate industry to have a יצר הרע to do it.
Tampa is not that the case, they have a huge supply, about 700 houses in just that gated community. Plus many new communities are being build around that area.

Would you consider buying a vacation house in greater Tampa area, as an alternative to South Florida?

Do you think there is more chances that other areas in South Florida with low prices, should become more Chasidish friendly?
In my eyes is Hollywood the closest candidate to North Miami Beach in South Florida, but its also more expensive than Tampa, plus its older houses.
How about North Miami beach outskirts? Spoke to some house managers and they said I won't be able to rent it out as of now. Where are the younger chabad families moving as alternative to NMB?
Your input is appreciated.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2021, 03:08:45 AM by Jo 08701 »

Offline YitzyS

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 3128
  • Total likes: 5641
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 21
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #691 on: February 16, 2021, 07:05:53 AM »
I hope this is the right forum, to vent all my ספיקות.
I'm not going to weigh in, because I know nothing about Florida, but I just wanted to say that I love the way you write. So methodical, and you communicate your thoughts really well. It's rare that I enjoy reading such a long post, especially one that I know nothing about...
Monkeys don't fly unless you put them on airplanes

Offline AsherO

  • Global Moderator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 20K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 24848
  • Total likes: 2554
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 75
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #692 on: February 16, 2021, 08:24:29 AM »
I'm not going to weigh in, because I know nothing about Florida, but I just wanted to say that I love the way you write. So methodical, and you communicate your thoughts really well. It's rare that I enjoy reading such a long post, especially one that I know nothing about...

I gave him another like for you.

Offline TimT

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 19340
  • Total likes: 2686
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #693 on: February 16, 2021, 08:45:51 AM »
Has the minyan started? I heading to Tampa this week for work and can use a late ma'ariv.
TR ?

Offline jj1000

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 11521
  • Total likes: 2032
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 8015
    • View Profile
  • Location: The value of a forum such as this one is not in that one can post a question and receive an answer, but in that the question has most likely been asked before, and the answer is available to him that will but only use the search function.
  • Programs: 1. Search on google. 2. Search in the right board of DDF with a general word or two. 3. Read the wiki. 4. Read the thread. 5. Ask away.
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #694 on: February 16, 2021, 08:51:34 AM »
Where are the younger chabad families moving as alternative to NMB?

Hallandale Beach, Aventura Isles, Hollywood a few different areas there.

Or go more north and get a cheap and big place in Boynton Beach, depending on age that can be a great option, but likely poor for rental income.
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline Jo 08701

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2015
  • Posts: 78
  • Total likes: 14
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New Jersey
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #695 on: February 16, 2021, 10:12:39 AM »
Hallandale Beach, Aventura Isles, Hollywood a few different areas there.

Or go more north and get a cheap and big place in Boynton Beach, depending on age that can be a great option, but likely poor for rental income.

Hi, can you please elaborate on this.
Do this communities have a full fledged Chabad house similar to the NMB chabad which has a separate nice comfortable mens mikvah.
I forgot to note in my earlier post 2 points.
1) Tampa has more and easier evacuation options ח"ו in case of a major hurricane, you are closer to mainland.
2) I spoke to one of the major house managers,  who I am doing business with already for more than six years.
When I was there the first time he was busy the whole time how you can buy for cheap, fix it over, and use for yourself and rent it out, making nice money. When I spoke to him last week, he told he can't advise me what to do, he didn't want to say anything how much you can make etc. He just told me that if i end up buying he will gladly help me out, and manage it. That was a sign for me that he also believes that NMB is at their peak, and the numbers is to high.
He told I can try to go the other side of the canal where you can still find for a little cheaper, but also wasn't pushy as he was when prices were like 350 with a pool.
Regarding other areas, I asked him about Hollywood, he knows me well, so he advised me that it's not my type or even similar.
Regarding Tampa, he didn't have any info about that. Hence it's a new product and in the early stages.

Offline ad120

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 1984
  • Total likes: 37
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Monsey, NY
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #696 on: February 16, 2021, 10:26:05 AM »
Hallandale Beach, Aventura Isles, Hollywood a few different areas there.

Or go more north and get a cheap and big place in Boynton Beach, depending on age that can be a great option, but likely poor for rental income.
Boynton Beach is where everyone should invest now. It's going to explode in a few years. Similarly to Boca Raton.

Offline ad120

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 1984
  • Total likes: 37
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: Monsey, NY
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #697 on: February 16, 2021, 10:29:11 AM »
I hope this is the right forum, to vent all my ספיקות.
As I am looking already for quite sometime into the South Florida housing market, as an option to own a vacation house which should eventually cover itself through rentals over peak seasons. I found that North Miami Beach is out of the budget already.
Some background: I am Chasidish, with some strict values, for example i need a walking distance men mikva, especially for shabbos morning. Upto 1 hour walking should be good. I walked sometimes when I went on vacation, more than an hour per direction for טבילת עזרא.
Minyan I am ok with Chasidish, Chabad, Yeshivish/Sefard/Ashkenaz.
Food, I am not at the age anymore that I should have a must for real fancy restaurants. But I do need a supermarket with basic kosher food with heimeishe hechsheirim.
Since I live in Lakewood in a decent size house, I am not looking to go there Pesach/Succos. As of now I can't even go even I want, for many reasons.
So therefore i have no problem on counting on the rental income.
Over the Winter, in our current situation we won't go down more than once over the winter, kids are in school, young kids, etc.
Over the summer we are looking to spend there the Aug month, as we drove down over the last few years, and we really loved it. Yes in the hot weather, but the private pool and the quietness is very good.
I remember when some Chasidish people moved from NY to North Miami Beach about 15 years ago and houses were cheap. At that time approximately many chasidish people bought there for a vacation home, and they are really having a use of it now, and are able to rent it out for top money during season.
My question is, is there chances that Tampa might be in the same position? Some Chasidish people moving from NY, that will make it a nice size OOT Community with their local grocery etc.
I understand that I can't count on getting 400 a night during the whole winter, but how about 200 a night? Also for Pesach/Succos I believe I can count on 5000 each.
Now the pros and cons in my eyes for both options:
Miami PROs
Higher nightly rate and easier to rent out.
More kosher options which makes it cheaper for me when visiting.
Established, no risk, no worries not to have minyan, etc.
The Community is full fledged already and not dependent on vacationers.
They are in the middle of the stages to open chasidish schools. Hence I can see my kids live there when they marry.
TAMPA pros.
Cheaper upfront price, new construction.
Less exposure to Flooding, less risk even with global warming. (Remember I am planning to use it more in 40 years from now.)

Both options have cheap flight options.

Tampa Cons:
Risk if this will be working out, but I do believe if there will be 100 chasidish families that will guarantee it a mikva, kosher grocery.
As of now, there is no market for kosher villas there.

Here are some questions which I wonna have input from others who know answers.
How about the weather in the summer in Tampa, was never there, i was in Miami and it wasnt that bad as some are trying to portray it. In my eyes, על טעם וריח אין להתוכיח.

Many say that Miami metro is the main attraction the food. Since i am not a foodie guy, i can't real answer that. But I wonder why people don't go to Tampa/Sarasota/St. Petersburg areas for vacation, atleast on the same level as Cancun which also don't have many food options.

Now, I did spoke to the organizers, and they have no problem that some people should buy for vacation homes. I do believe it will only help them that some people should have vacation houses there. That will bring free advertising for their Community, all the home owners will have to advertise their houses for the heimeishe Community. It will also bring weekly new faces to the Community and more outside money into the local heimeishe economy.
Those visitors will also become ambassadors for the Community, back home in Tri State area.
Vacationers usually spend more money in Grocery for expensive items, that will make it more economically viable to bring it down those stuff.
Now if the demand would be more than supply, like for example Linden NJ,  I understand that it wouldn't be healthy to have outside investors to drive up prices. And I would never think of buying in such a climate, ואהבת לרעך כמוך and I am not even in the real estate industry to have a יצר הרע to do it.
Tampa is not that the case, they have a huge supply, about 700 houses in just that gated community. Plus many new communities are being build around that area.

Would you consider buying a vacation house in greater Tampa area, as an alternative to South Florida?

Do you think there is more chances that other areas in South Florida with low prices, should become more Chasidish friendly?
In my eyes is Hollywood the closest candidate to North Miami Beach in South Florida, but its also more expensive than Tampa, plus its older houses.
How about North Miami beach outskirts? Spoke to some house managers and they said I won't be able to rent it out as of now. Where are the younger chabad families moving as alternative to NMB?
Your input is appreciated.
Eden Gardens in Kissimmee.
I personally love Sarasota and St. Petersburg. The lack of infrastructure makes it unattractive to drum families.

Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 12615
  • Total likes: 773
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #698 on: February 16, 2021, 10:30:23 AM »
(Remember I am planning to use it more in 40 years from now.)
I really don't get this cheshbon - who knows what will be in 40 years from now. Hopefully mashiach tzidkeinu will be here by then and you won't think of vacationing in FL. You can easily buy and sell many times over in the course of 40 years
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Jo 08701

  • Dansdeals Silver Elite
  • **
  • Join Date: Feb 2015
  • Posts: 78
  • Total likes: 14
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: New Jersey
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #699 on: February 16, 2021, 11:52:01 AM »
I really don't get this cheshbon - who knows what will be in 40 years from now. Hopefully mashiach tzidkeinu will be here by then and you won't think of vacationing in FL. You can easily buy and sell many times over in the course of 40 years

אחכה לו בכל יום שיבוא
So what the difference between making a calculations for 1 year or 40 years.
Now, I am not looking in to it as an investment,  I am looking to have something for my upcoming years עמו"ש, and if I am now almost 40, it makes sense to calculate till 80.
If I have bought already in Miami, or I live there, and scientists come put with a study that in 30 years from now Miami will be under water, I would leave it to hashem,  and not worry now. But since I don't have anything yet, so I believe I do have חיוב השתדלות to weigh my options on a normal level.
I am not a משפיע or any רוחניות authority, just a simple דעת בעל הבית.
I do believe that believing that South Florida can be under water is not a סתירה באמונת השם, after all the entire South Florida area was till approximately 100 years ago not habitated by Humans, the entire area was a swamp, so the sea can always reclaim it, ח"ו.

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 1352
  • Total likes: 868
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #700 on: February 16, 2021, 02:55:50 PM »
Wasn't under water 100 years ago. It was a swamp and still is, they just figured how to make great use of the swamp.

#draintheswamp

Offline TimT

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 19340
  • Total likes: 2686
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #701 on: February 16, 2021, 03:08:09 PM »
I read an interview he gave last week. Says besides for Taussig families another 3 families have moved there & more come for the weekends.

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 1352
  • Total likes: 868
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #702 on: February 16, 2021, 03:09:31 PM »

And to your question, I really don't see how it's possible to make that decision right now, and actually you shouldn't decide that now. It's definitely worth the wait to see how that development progresses, there is enough inventory to keep the prices stable for the next few years at least, and even paying 30k more in 3-4 years from is also worth it to have more clarity then. You say you don't need it for a RE investment but rather as a vacation home which should cover by itself. There will likely not be a big market for it in the next few years, so you can rather exploit the low renting cost to vacation there before buying so you can become personally familiar with the entire place.

Additionally. Looks to me like its a clustered development with no possibility of adding a privet pool in the backyard, which makes it unpractical for your vacation needs in the summer. CMIIW


Offline TimT

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 19340
  • Total likes: 2686
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #703 on: February 16, 2021, 03:18:53 PM »
I really don't get this cheshbon - who knows what will be in 40 years from now. Hopefully mashiach tzidkeinu will be here by then
Is taking out a mortgage a lack of faith ? How about long-term investments ?

Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 12615
  • Total likes: 773
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa
« Reply #704 on: February 16, 2021, 03:28:23 PM »
Is taking out a mortgage a lack of faith ? How about long-term investments ?
I don't think so, but that's different than this.
Anyway, my main point was my last one, that you can sell and buy many times over in 40 years, why does this home need to be something usable for retirement
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.