New Chassidish Community Being Planned in Tampa

[Something Fishy]

Is that a NYCDOB inspector ?

In all seriousness, it seems to be a pretty homogenous group overall.

[Lurker]

I really don't know how they ran the numbers but don't forget he is a adding 30K per house for infrastructure, so the buildings should be paid off, and when talking about chasidim, it's not hard at all to reach this number.

You seem very invested in this project, and I wish you much hatzlacha. The one piece of advice I would give you is to get involved. Don't take numbers at face value. Ask exactly how each little thing is being paid for and where every penny is going. It's ok for people to be making money off of this deal, but it is not ok to make half-baked plans and stick people with avoidable or foreseeable expenses after they move. The viability of this community, or any small community, relies on widespread community engagement and involvement. People need to get their hands dirty.

[mendyt]

You seem very invested in this project, and I wish you much hatzlacha. The one piece of advice I would give you is to get involved. Don't take numbers at face value. Ask exactly how each little thing is being paid for and where every penny is going. It's ok for people to be making money off of this deal, but it is not ok to make half-baked plans and stick people with avoidable or foreseeable expenses after they move. The viability of this community, or any small community, relies on widespread community engagement and involvement. People need to get their hands dirty.

Thanks @Lurker I totally agree on this!
And thats why I'm not rushing to sign contract

[username]

Also, free tuition is only children entering kindergarten now, for as long as the program runs, hopefully through HS. If your child is now older than that, there are no subsidies, CMIIW.

[ad120]

That is the largest amount of people he has every had in that building!

[EliJelly]

In all seriousness, it seems to be a pretty homogenous group overall.

It can fit his description of;

Probably all.

As I wrote in my longer post, I did not speak with everyone, but I did meet:
Satmer
Belz
Gur
Pupa
Viznits
Neutral

[fresar]

You seem very invested in this project, and I wish you much hatzlacha. The one piece of advice I would give you is to get involved. Don't take numbers at face value. Ask exactly how each little thing is being paid for and where every penny is going. It's ok for people to be making money off of this deal, but it is not ok to make half-baked plans and stick people with avoidable or foreseeable expenses after they move. The viability of this community, or any small community, relies on widespread community engagement and involvement. People need to get their hands dirty.

Every new community in the beginning is not the easiest, Usually the first newcomers get the cheapest price, as it was in Staten Island, jersey city , linden etc. he should probably offer a big discount for the 1st 100 families.

The biggest issue here is the crowd, People, people want to see who is moving, How many etc
 the bathtub and size of the house I don’t think is on anyone’s mind. can always be extended, replaced etc

[erlich]

That wasn't truly making a new community. It was taking over an existing YI community and expanding it.

To be correct
They didn't took over a community at all!
It's just was easier that there is some shuls and especially a mikva on premises and some kosher food there!
There is nothing to take over ,over there, but it's definitely not comparable to
The new chasidish communities like
Linden NJ
Bloomingburg NY
Jersey city NJ
Where it's totally In a desert with no Jewish infrastructure in sight and need to build from scratch

[erlich]

No, Gibbers was a failure till now. But has potential now that there is a rebbi.

Gibbers isn't a failure at all, maybe in your eyes

They are 100 families now and living happily then ever before, no one was forced to move there, it's a kinda of frum families that choose that kind of lifestyle , not everyone prefers a city life kind of life.

[erlich]

At this point, their legal troubles are over. There's not enough people moving there. They haven't built new houses in many years, only 1/4 of the allowed houses are built so far.

Well you are probably misinformed

Bloomingburg besides the town homes built by the original developer that is sold out, there is b"h almost another dozen of smaller developments taking place as we speak , some of them are done and people moved in , I am a investor myself I some developments taking place there b"h , things are moving pretty ok there , posted below is one of the newest development that poured foundations a month ago b"h

[erlich]

They "won" but they are not fully over the fallout from the legal problems.
They didn't get C of Os on the houses they built until relatively recently. They are selling houses as quickly as they become available.
It's hard to build new homes when the developer is behind bars.

One indication that they are well established is that they stopped accepting outside kids to their school, something they had been allowing to fill up their classes.

No developer is b"h behimd bars

And Mr. lamn Is not involved anymore , they bought him out , the famous businessman and baal tzedaka Yati Weinreb is the owner and original investor of the rest of the property they still have to develop, besides that there is multiple private investors with property

[EliJelly]

No developer is b"h behimd bars

And Mr. lamn Is not involved anymore , they bought him out , the famous businessman and baal tzedaka Yumtee Yati Weinreb is the owner and original investor of the rest of the property they still have to develop, besides that there is multiple private investors with property

FTFY
He isn't nuts..

[erlich]

There are definitely some people on here who desperately want this project to fail, there can be a few reasons to that.
Im still not saying that this will for sure work out, but I do have high hopes

Family's who actually want to move are:
Meeting up shortly and are already communicating with each other
Already flying down to see Model homes
NO its not just stock images, and the image above is actually the smaller home.

I feel like its a waist of time to sit on here and have to play defense with the haters.

Liked

[erlich]

Life in Florida will be more expansive. think travel alone to NY for any family related event.

You can get in Lakewood a new townhouse with 2500 SQF for 300-400K or a larger house with a finished basement for a rental for 600-700k

300k is more then half less then 700k !
And taxes is half price too!
The only reason is why such a movement should be successful is because the reasonable sale price!

There is no place on planet earth on the moment ,where a frum chasidish crowd can get a brand new gorgeous house for such;
Sale price
size
Low Tax
built mass production
By a billion dollar company!
Shovel ready, takes a few months to have ready houses
And a local government that wants you!

I am involved in many huge developments thru out NY state , but the local government give you hell to succeed !

[erlich]

I dunno, seems unwise to lock an entire community into a development that is so inflexible.

Well to be honest that's the only way to succeed on mass production

The successful heimishe big Developers in monsey and monroe ,are only building with no customized extras what so ever for a while, because they end up losing lots of money and its impossible to deal with it , not talking about custom luxury homes

[erlich]

They don't have 100 buyers yet. Based on what I've seen here, it seems like they've been looking for already planned developments and then tried working out deals with the developers. For the most flexibility, they would be best served looking for land and then shopping the project to developers who have houses that fit their needs. They seem to be in a rush, though, so I'm not sure this was ever an option. They'd also need to have commitments and cash up front to make that work, and the way they are doing it allows for more flexibility in the event they aren't able to fill an entire development.

Been there
Done that

There is no deep jewish pockets that want to risk their money to make such things happen

The only way is that you have a billion dollar company backing your show , cant be more successful then that

As I look at it ,as I am involved in such developments in the tri state area ,is this the only real reason I see why this should be successful iy"h

[erlich]

Its all very legit concerns, but for the person with 5 kids living in a 2 BR apt in Brooklyn 975 sq ft total with no bathroom in master BR (which is 9 * 9 sq ft big) and no playroom and no living space and has only $40k-50k saved for down payment (from unemployment that he filed for himself and his wife ), He should wait another few years in his cramped apt because MAYBE someone will have to offer a bathtub and playroom is.............

Best comment so far

As I understand most commenters here aren't chasidish , so they won't get the idea what so ever

[erlich]

Finchley Commons... IIRC 400K 2500SQF

Still not comparable to a 2 story private house on a private property with lower yearly taxes for 300k

[Yammer]

Also The kitchens look tiny

+100

It's the center of a Jewish home.

We all have garages, but I think I've met one person who actually parked his car in it. They are primarily used for storage (instead of basements), and sometimes they are converted into extra bedrooms, offices, or Pesach kitchens. Most cities mandate houses have at least a 1 car garage. I believe it has something to do with having a place to put your car in a storm.

Exactly what I was thinking. They probably need the garage for legal purposes, additionally it may not be legal to build that much livable SQ footage etc.

Exactly why those layouts make no sense. Why would you make a new frum community with houses that make no sense for frum families?
Small kitchens, no playrooms, no master bathtub, shared bedroom bathroom with entire main floor, nothing over 2.5k sq ft.
They're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

Kitchens you're 100% right
The downstairs room will become the playroom,( at least until the garage is done)
The master bathroom can have a tub added as mentioned above ( the walk in closet in the bathroom is a bad idea )

But overall when your trying not to invest a penny into the project, you will definitely need to adjust..

Are they gated? How do you stop kids from running into them?

Many bungalow colony's have ponds with no gates

Master bedroom on first floor?

And on the second.

By the way,
I wonder why people don't ask all these questions to most Monsey area residents who moved out to small high ranches or colonials.

The price is low, 2600ft is not tiny, all you need is invest a little more money to make it perfect.

True point, but a few differences here.

1. Monsey isn't that far from the city and it's within their budgets
2. Many plan to extend eventually when they can afford
3. These are pre-existing houses. When your in the buying process you choose a house based on many factors but obviously need to give in. New construction is a whole new world.

4. And the biggest difference is that here you need ppl that are willing to sacrifice and leave their entire universe behind ( obviously exaggerating ), something that's never been done in a Chassidishe setting. The more you offer the more ppl will be willing to sacrifice.

[Yammer]

News flash. There are more options than FL and NY.

For Chassidishe ppl?

CMIIW, but most mosdos rely very heavily on donations. Even if the teachers don't get paid much, you still need facilities and equipment. Those things often get donated in other communities. There are also admin costs in getting a new school set up.

18 kids per class in K-8, with separate classes for boys and girls, means they need 324 kids. That's setting the bar pretty high. It's very doable after a few years, but people need to be prepared to cover those first few years until more people move down.

ETA: Another thing that needs to be taken into account is that you can't pay teachers in FL like you do in NY. All of your teachers will be living in your community, meaning they are paying $25k-30k a year in housing alone. There is no Section 8 covering things. They likely won't qualify for food stamps, and definitely not at NY levels. There are also fewer organizations to help cover the gaps. No gemachs. The teachers need to be paid properly, or the whole community falls apart.

The point it, if you average all the teachers' housing expenses, you probably won't come up to $30k. You have single teachers, newly married teachers, teachers in rent-controlled or subsidized housing, and Section 8 housing. None of that is available in this community.

People underestimate the amount of tzedaka that is given in NY communities to help keep them afloat. The #1 biggest struggle of any new community will be filling those gaps. Unless the community is being backed by people of means, it will be a huge struggle, and one that will be hard to predict or quantify.

Some very good points here.

1. Schools won't be full in the beginning
2. It'll be impossible to find cheap single files for teachers meaning that the cost goes up substantially.
3. Even regular teachers will be pretty hard ( but will IY"H ) be successful.

Bottom line is, I hope very much that this will be successful, but ppl should definitely try to get the full picture )

To be correct
They didn't took over a community at all!
It's just was easier that there is some shuls and especially a mikva on premises and some kosher food there!
There is nothing to take over ,over there, but it's definitely not comparable to
The new chasidish communities like
Linden NJ
Bloomingburg NY
Jersey city NJ
Where it's totally In a desert with no Jewish infrastructure in sight and need to build from scratch

They don't need anything except for shuls. They are currently relying on the schools etc in BP/Willy. Eventually when that are established enough they will open their own.

Here you need to have everything on day 1