Author Topic: Is there a second wave?  (Read 50604 times)

Online yitzgar

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #780 on: December 21, 2020, 02:20:20 PM »
If it is not something knowable or measurable that how does this have any practical application and how does this have to do with anything that anyone said here? Who cares if the reason is because they weren't exposed to the same amount of viral particles or if they "happened" to sneeze when they were exposed and expelled the viral particles or some other reason? What are you getting at? THe point is that they were exposed and didn't get infected.
The point is that just because someone was "exposed" in the common vernacular, doesn't mean they were genuinely exposed to virus in such a way that they "should have" gotten sick. Therefore, having a spouse, chavrusa or whatever, in no way means that "I already had it"

Offline aygart

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #781 on: December 21, 2020, 02:35:55 PM »
The point is that just because someone was "exposed" in the common vernacular, doesn't mean they were genuinely exposed to virus in such a way that they "should have" gotten sick. Therefore, having a spouse, chavrusa or whatever, in no way means that "I already had it"
Oh, that is basically what @S209 was saying and I thought you were disagreeing with him so I guess you are right that
You guys missed the point
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #782 on: December 21, 2020, 02:42:39 PM »
It is certainly possible that this is so. It was stated as fact, though, and I was asking for a source that it actually works that way.
What was stated as fact? That if two people are exposed at the same second from the exact same angle and distance with the exact same immune response for the exact same duration from the same person that the outcomes would be different? That was not what I said.

I added to your point that not only isn’t everyone necessarily exposed to infectious viral shedding, but even if you *are* “exposed” to a person who *is* actively shedding infectious virus at that time you are not guaranteed to become infected.
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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #783 on: December 21, 2020, 02:44:13 PM »
I totally agree with this sentiment.
However, I hope the irony of you using this argument at this stage isn't lost on you
Where's @TimT to show that it's not only "at this stage" that I have made this argument.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline aygart

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #784 on: December 21, 2020, 02:44:56 PM »
What was stated as fact? That if two people are exposed at the same second from the exact same angle and distance with the exact same immune response for the exact same duration from the same person that the outcomes would be different? That was not what I said.

I added to your point that not only isn’t everyone necessarily exposed to infectious viral shedding, but even if you *are* “exposed” to a person who *is* actively shedding infectious virus at that time you are not guaranteed to become infected.
I don't know that it is even possible to know that and therefore would have no practical applcations.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #785 on: December 21, 2020, 02:45:59 PM »
Where's @TimT to show that it's not only "at this stage" that I have made this argument.
I didn't see any mention of "only" in his post.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #786 on: December 21, 2020, 02:51:05 PM »
I don't know that it is even possible to know that and therefore would have no practical applcations.
Exactly. My sisters and my wife were exposed to my mother at the same time, my wife and one sister caught it but my other sister didn’t. Negative for antibodies, never had it, consistent negative PCRs.

The point is that even if you were indeed exposed to someone shedding virus there is zero indication that you are now “immune”.
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Online yitzgar

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #787 on: December 21, 2020, 02:57:38 PM »
Exactly. My sisters and my wife were exposed to my mother at the same time, my wife and one sister caught it but my other sister didn’t. Negative for antibodies, never had it, consistent negative PCRs.

The point is that even if you were indeed exposed to someone shedding virus there is zero indication that you are now “immune”.
+1
The argument here could potentially be that she is immune despite not showing antibodies. The only way to prove that theory wrong in this situation is if someone else in the same scenario later became infected from a different source.

Offline S209

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #788 on: December 21, 2020, 03:02:55 PM »

The argument here could potentially be that she is immune despite not showing antibodies. The only way to prove that theory wrong in this situation is if someone else in the same scenario later became infected from a different source.
Key words: *potentially* and *theory*.
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Offline Ergel

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #789 on: December 21, 2020, 03:12:05 PM »
Where's @TimT to show that it's not only "at this stage" that I have made this argument.
I didn't see any mention of "only" in his post.
It's been ironic every time you've made the argument
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline aygart

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #790 on: December 21, 2020, 03:21:15 PM »
+1
The argument here could potentially be that she is immune despite not showing antibodies. The only way to prove that theory wrong in this situation is if someone else in the same scenario later became infected from a different source.
There are definitely cases such as at weddings and in shuls. Consideirng there is no way to measure who got more or less viral particles this means that even if the theory is true it has no practical application.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online yitzgar

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #791 on: December 21, 2020, 03:44:08 PM »
Key words: *potentially* and *theory*.
Correct

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #792 on: December 21, 2020, 03:44:26 PM »
There are definitely cases such as at weddings and in shuls. Consideirng there is no way to measure who got more or less viral particles this means that even if the theory is true it has no practical application.
True

Offline S209

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #793 on: December 21, 2020, 05:41:34 PM »
As I’ve stated in the past, it’s also possible that cross reactivity from another coronavirus caused temporary immunity which wanes fairly quickly
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Is there a second wave?
« Reply #794 on: December 21, 2020, 05:53:13 PM »
As I’ve stated in the past, it’s also possible that cross reactivity from another coronavirus caused temporary immunity which wanes fairly quickly
I was wondering about that - I had been fighting a cold for a couple weeks prior to my wife contracting covid and I didn't catch covid from her.

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #795 on: December 21, 2020, 06:35:51 PM »
I was wondering about that - I had been fighting a cold for a couple weeks prior to my wife contracting covid and I didn't catch covid from her.
Did anyone catch it from her? Remember, 69% of patients do not infect anyone.
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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #796 on: December 21, 2020, 06:39:28 PM »
Did anyone catch it from her? Remember, 69% of patients do not infect anyone.
I don't believe anyone did. And she had a very light case so it's conceivable her initial viral load was very low and her viral shedding also was. Sometimes I wish we had "covid goggles" to be able to visualize shedding.

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Re: Is there a second wave?
« Reply #797 on: December 21, 2020, 06:40:58 PM »
I don't believe anyone did. And she had a very light case so it's conceivable her initial viral load was very low and her viral shedding also was. Sometimes I wish we had "covid goggles" to be able to visualize shedding.
It would be a different world if we had those....