Author Topic: Stella Immanuel Asks Why We Don't Prescribe Prophylactic Hydroxychloroquine  (Read 2096 times)

Online cks33

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I'll leave this here:

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/how-quack-doctors-and-powerful-gop-operatives-spread-misinformation-to-millions-213923648.html

You decide who to believe.


Many of the members of America’s Frontline Doctors have promoted fringe views that go against overwhelming medical evidence. The group includes a pro-Trump physician who has appeared on Fox News advocating against lockdowns and an evangelical Christian minister who has promoted bizarre claims about DNA from space aliens being used in medical treatment. Dr. Stella Immmanuel, a minister who operates a tiny walk-in medical clinic out of a strip mall in Texas, falsely claimed there was a “cure” for COVID-19 and suggested that people did not need to wear masks.

Immanuel is the author of several books which contain homophobic and extreme views, as well as writing that the “Harry Potter” series makes society “accept demonic activity and witchcraft as normal” and that “demonic music has penetrated the souls of our children and programmed them with an anti-Christ message.”

It is unclear how the group came together, but several have become popular in conservative circles for promoting views that align with Trump’s rhetoric on the pandemic.

Offline yitzgar

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I'll leave this here:

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/how-quack-doctors-and-powerful-gop-operatives-spread-misinformation-to-millions-213923648.html

You decide who to believe.


Many of the members of America’s Frontline Doctors have promoted fringe views that go against overwhelming medical evidence. The group includes a pro-Trump physician who has appeared on Fox News advocating against lockdowns and an evangelical Christian minister who has promoted bizarre claims about DNA from space aliens being used in medical treatment. Dr. Stella Immmanuel, a minister who operates a tiny walk-in medical clinic out of a strip mall in Texas, falsely claimed there was a “cure” for COVID-19 and suggested that people did not need to wear masks.

Immanuel is the author of several books which contain homophobic and extreme views, as well as writing that the “Harry Potter” series makes society “accept demonic activity and witchcraft as normal” and that “demonic music has penetrated the souls of our children and programmed them with an anti-Christ message.”

It is unclear how the group came together, but several have become popular in conservative circles for promoting views that align with Trump’s rhetoric on the pandemic.
If the only negative thing they can find about her is her religious beliefs, she must be an excellent doctor. Huffpo opinion piece masquerading as fact definitely won't change anyone heres mind....

Offline Lurker

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If the only negative thing they can find about her is her religious beliefs, she must be an excellent doctor. Huffpo opinion piece masquerading as fact definitely won't change anyone heres mind....

She believes that cysts are devil sperm, inseminated into people by spirits during dreams. She also believes that alien DNA is used in medical treatments. Do those count as a medical opinions or religious beliefs?
Tick tock

Offline yitzgar

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She believes that cysts are devil sperm, inseminated into people by spirits during dreams. She also believes that alien DNA is used in medical treatments. Do those count as a medical opinions or religious beliefs?
This is more helpful in determining whether she is a good doctor than the fact that she is "homophobic"

Offline username

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HCQ - we have a double blind randomized study among many others showing its ineffective.

Can you link to these studies? I looked over this study, and as a layman, i dont see proof of anything except that Covid-19 is not (so) dangerous to the age group tested, and that the virus is not so catchy (?!)

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638

A quick (approximate)summary is that they got 800 people (median age=40, half men, half women) who were in close contact with Covid-19 cases. 400 got HCL, 400 placeba. From each group 50 got sick, and there was 1 hospitalization in each group. No deaths in either group.

And i think that the HCQ promoters agree 100% to the study's stated conclusion. They dont say that it will prevent illness, they just say it will prevent deaths.

"CONCLUSIONS
After high-risk or moderate-risk exposure to Covid-19, hydroxychloroquine did not prevent illness compatible with Covid-19 or confirmed infection when used as postexposure prophylaxis within 4 days after exposure."
^^^

Offline username

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And the study was back in Marck, only 16 of the symtomatic participants were tested. And as a layman, I dont understand that they initially state that would need 750 people in each group for the study to be valid. Not sure why the number was dropped to 800 total participants.

The study also states (my bold):
"This randomized trial did not demonstrate a significant benefit of hydroxychloroquine as postexposure prophylaxis for Covid-19. Whether preexposure prophylaxis would be effective in high-risk populations is a separate question, with trials ongoing. In order to end the pandemic, a reduction in community transmission is needed"

I believe that this is what the HCQ promoters are arguing.

So I guess my question is: Are there any studies about whether preexposure prophylaxis would be effective in high-risk populations ?

ETA:
So I guess my question is: Are there any studies that preexposure prophylaxis is ineffective or dangerous in high-risk populations ?

Please link if there are.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 11:27:51 AM by username »
^^^

Offline neveryou

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And the study was back in Marck, only 16 of the symtomatic participants were tested. And as a layman, I dont understand that they initially state that would need 750 people in each group for the study to be valid. Not sure why the number was dropped to 800 total participants.

The study also states (my bold):
"This randomized trial did not demonstrate a significant benefit of hydroxychloroquine as postexposure prophylaxis for Covid-19. Whether preexposure prophylaxis would be effective in high-risk populations is a separate question, with trials ongoing. In order to end the pandemic, a reduction in community transmission is needed"

I believe that this is what the HCQ promoters are arguing.

So I guess my question is: Are there any studies about whether preexposure prophylaxis would be effective in high-risk populations ?

Please link if there are.

Wasn't that what dr zelenko was saying and doing with his patients?

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see my edit
^^^

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Offline chinagel

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Lemme guess, you believe in crimate chlange and the world is ending in 7 yrs
🙄
Not sure what you are "trying to prove from climate change".  I am sorry if you are a climate change denier. Vast majority of scientists think its real.  And if the whole world is conspiring to make up climate change, when they can't agree on a vast majority of other things, you must really think climate change has some special factors favoring it. Even countries that don't see eye to eye on most things (China, USA) had come to an agreement to reduce CO2. But , sure, its a left wing conspiracy.
Not bad @Jellybelly

Offline ExGingi

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False.

Here's where I think you might be wrong in categorically denying the truth in what I said:

Your post seems to indicate that you're missing my point. I did not give an opinion or make an argument about HCQ or the efficacy of masks. As I believe I've said before, I don't agree with everything that I quote, I often post for to provoke thought, discussion, controversy, critical thinking or just for pure entertainment (just ask @Dan about any post with even the most remote mention of a certain noun starting with a B  ;)). My opinion, which I did post and that you responded to, is that what seems to be drawing the most heated discussion and taking of sides is the "idolization" of science achieved (or achievable) by humans vs. those that will readily acknowledge the inability of humans to understand and grasp everything (which doesn't absolve us from trying to do so). Think of the meaning of תכלית הידיעה שלא נדע.

I've been wanting to post the following story a couple of times, and see how different people would react to it. I will post it here now, and I definitely do acknowledge the differences between that situation and the current one, yet I find value in trying to put oneself into that situation and think honestly about how they would act/react/feel etc. while constantly reflecting on our current situation @Lurker do you want to go first?

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/428230/jewish/Hakafot-in-Liozna.htm
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 12:22:00 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Ergel

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So to summarize, one side says the other side thinks science is infallible.
The other side says, no we don't, but you think that because science is fallible therefore it is meaningless.
Meaning you both claim to hold the same position basically.
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline ExGingi

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So to summarize, one side says the other side thinks science is infallible.
The other side says, no we don't, but you think that because science is fallible therefore it is meaningless.
Meaning you both claim to hold the same position basically.

I like your post very much, despite the fact that I disagree with it.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline simple26

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What about this guy ?
“Dr. Harvey Risch, an epidemiology professor at Yale School of Public Health, told Fox News last week that he believes hydroxychloroquine could save 75,000 to 100,000 lives if the drug is widely used to treat coronavirus.”

Offline Ergel

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Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.