Author Topic: Stella Immanuel Asks Why We Don't Prescribe Prophylactic Hydroxychloroquine  (Read 4379 times)

Offline Euclid

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #60 on: July 28, 2020, 06:30:32 PM »
You guys are completely misrepresenting what he did and said. He received over 2000 patients. Of those, he treated around 800 with his regimen.
The idea is that HCQ+zinc+azythromycin  works in the outpatient setting to prevent the virus from becoming a full blown inferno. He believed it was only effective in the first 5 days of infection.
So... By the time a patient presented to a doctor, it was generally day 4 or 5. To wait 3 days for results was too long, because by day 8 he felt it was too late. So he prescribed to those showing symptoms over the age of 60 or had comorbidities. 
His numbers take into account the full 2200 who presented with symptoms. To compare that with the general population is ludicrous.
Bottom line... The demographics in KJ is similar to that of BP and Willie, yet we don't find a similar pattern of destruction. Is it possible that it was due to his regimen? Absolutely. It's mind boggling that that isn't enough for people when there isn't an alternative. Sure, a randomized study would be great, but let's grab the driftwood to prevent drowning and then we can figure out how to build a boat.
It could also be due to the relatively young average age of KJ.

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #61 on: July 28, 2020, 06:32:25 PM »
It could also be due to the relatively young average age of KJ.
Or many other possible reasons including that maybe the first cases in the community were a couple of weeks later.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline moish

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #62 on: July 28, 2020, 06:34:20 PM »
It could also be due to the relatively young average age of KJ.
2 deaths in the 800 of over 60 or underlying conditions.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #63 on: July 28, 2020, 06:49:02 PM »
2 deaths in the 800 of over 60 or underlying conditions.

Source for the numbers? I thought it was closer to 400, but I really don't remember.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #64 on: July 28, 2020, 06:53:38 PM »
You guys are completely misrepresenting what he did and said. He received over 2000 patients. Of those, he treated around 800 with his regimen.
The idea is that HCQ+zinc+azythromycin  works in the outpatient setting to prevent the virus from becoming a full blown inferno. He believed it was only effective in the first 5 days of infection.
So... By the time a patient presented to a doctor, it was generally day 4 or 5. To wait 3 days for results was too long, because by day 8 he felt it was too late. So he prescribed to those showing symptoms over the age of 60 or had comorbidities. 
His numbers take into account the full 2200 who presented with symptoms. To compare that with the general population is ludicrous.
Bottom line... The demographics in KJ is similar to that of BP and Willie, yet we don't find a similar pattern of destruction. Is it possible that it was due to his regimen? Absolutely. It's mind boggling that that isn't enough for people when there isn't an alternative. Sure, a randomized study would be great, but let's grab the driftwood to prevent drowning and then we can figure out how to build a boat.

Source? He said he’s taking it himself without symptoms. Where does he say his survival rate is based on high risk demographic and not everybody he prescribed it to?
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline moish

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #65 on: July 28, 2020, 07:01:38 PM »
Source? He said he’s taking it himself without symptoms.
My source is all the interviews he's given.

There is another avenue which is the prophylactic regimen that does not include Azythromycin, which he only recommends to very high risk individuals such as front line health care providers, nursing home residents, police officers, etc.

Offline moish

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #66 on: July 28, 2020, 07:02:11 PM »
Source for the numbers? I thought it was closer to 400, but I really don't remember.
His interviews

Offline avromie7

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #67 on: July 28, 2020, 07:33:42 PM »
I know people that sold 20 cent masks and made millions of dollars. Yes the regiment may be cheap but there's still billions of dollars to be made. And when there's money to be made, there's a company behind it with an agenda. While I'm still following the money, insurance companies would gladly push an agenda for HCQ if it saved them hundreds of billions of dollars. Don't understand what you're saying about Bernie.
I'm not getting involved in the whole discussion, but 2 things you said here are wrong

1) HCQ is insanely cheap, there is no billions of dollars to be made.
2) Insurance companies are mandated to pay out 85% of premiums in claims. This is one of the disasters of obamacare, in the past insurance companies had an incentive to keep their payouts as low as possible, and that brought down the cost of insurance. Now they're incentivized to pay out as much as possible so they can charge more and make more money.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline moish

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #68 on: July 28, 2020, 07:38:40 PM »
Source for the numbers? I thought it was closer to 400, but I really don't remember.
Source?
Watch from 13:30 for 5 minutes

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=718749448688061&ref=watch_permalink

Offline stooges44

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #69 on: July 28, 2020, 07:42:02 PM »
waiting for the thread split....
If it's not free shipping it's not worth it.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #70 on: July 28, 2020, 07:46:05 PM »
Well, the quack actually did publish a preprint of his alleged 99.3% survival rate, and it is based on an analysis of 141 patients.

Yes, he claims he had a subject size of 372 patients, of whom only 164 were given his cocktail, and his analysis refers to 141 of them (median age 58 years, IQR 40-67; 73% male). There is no report of the outcome of the other 23 patients who got the cocktails, which raises a large suspicion that he omitted them because their results were worse.

He is claiming his numbers are far better than a similar demographic of patients who did not receive the HCQ cocktail, however not an ounce of information is provided about these control patients.

Furthermore, I don't believe he discloses if his 141 treatment group also took other medicined like steroids we know help.

Prima facie it appears he cherry-picked a medium risk group whose mortality rate echos the general population rate. His patients are all under 80 with some risk, whereas the general population includes 20yo + 90yo.

https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202007.0025/v1
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #71 on: July 28, 2020, 08:04:50 PM »
Watch from 13:30 for 5 minutes

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=718749448688061&ref=watch_permalink
I just did

'I treated 2200 patients, probably more than anyone else in the world'
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline stooges44

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #72 on: July 28, 2020, 08:54:15 PM »
waiting for the thread split....

Score!
If it's not free shipping it's not worth it.

Offline cks33

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So I am Anesthesiologist who has worked with and treated COVID patients.

I am not sure why people think we are scared of big pharma.  I could care less where or what drug I use in a patient, as long as it makes them better.  I don't get any benefit at ALL from using one drug over another.  I wouldn't be scared to use a generic, in fact, most of us always do if possible.

I think you are nuts if you listen to that video, but, feel free to do that and follow the advice from Dr. Immanuel.

Remember, she said: “You don’t need masks” to prevent spread of the coronavirus.

You are also welcome to walk around in my ICU without a mask, and you can take your HCQ (just make sure to wear a mask so you don't infect innocent bystanders after you are infected).

You do you. I'll do whats best for my patients.

Offline Lamppost

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So I am Anesthesiologist who has worked with and treated COVID patients.

I am not sure why people think we are scared of big pharma.  I could care less where or what drug I use in a patient, as long as it makes them better.  I don't get any benefit at ALL from using one drug over another.  I wouldn't be scared to use a generic, in fact, most of us always do if possible.

I think you are nuts if you listen to that video, but, feel free to do that and follow the advice from Dr. Immanuel.

Remember, she said: “You don’t need masks” to prevent spread of the coronavirus.

You are also welcome to walk around in my ICU without a mask, and you can take your HCQ (just make sure to wear a mask so you don't infect innocent bystanders after you are infected).

You do you. I'll do whats best for my patients.

She should not have said that or that its a cure. But I think its obvious that she meant that the masks wouldnt be necessary to the extent that the world is making it out to be if there is an easy and cheap remedy to the virus. The same way nobody healthy wore masks for basically anything else before corona. BTW, Dr Fauci said the same thing about masks a little while back ;)

To your other pints, the ICU is deifferent obviously. Nobody ever walks into the ICU without PPE, before COvid also. Regarding the drugs, I totally get what youre saying and I am not doubting that. But if there is a new Covid drug released my understanding is that no generic drugs can be manufactured on it until the patent expires on it, no? Wouldnt that give bug pharma an incentive to squash HCQ? I dont know, I am asking not to doubt you, just because I want to know.

Out of curiosity, as a dr, what is your personal opinion on HCQ?

Offline thaber

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My four cents -
1) anyone who goes off the rails like that shouldn't be listened to. There's clear issues. Sentence by sentence her speech made no sense.
2) HCQ advocates run in the same circles as anti vaxxers.
3) a treatment doesn't preclude the need for a vaccine at all. So no reason for conspiracy theories.
4) plenty of dubious stuff about zelenko that makes a rational person doubt the veracity of what he says on his say so

Offline Lurker

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She should not have said that or that its a cure. But I think its obvious that she meant that the masks wouldnt be necessary to the extent that the world is making it out to be if there is an easy and cheap remedy to the virus. The same way nobody healthy wore masks for basically anything else before corona. BTW, Dr Fauci said the same thing about masks a little while back ;)

To your other pints, the ICU is deifferent obviously. Nobody ever walks into the ICU without PPE, before COvid also. Regarding the drugs, I totally get what youre saying and I am not doubting that. But if there is a new Covid drug released my understanding is that no generic drugs can be manufactured on it until the patent expires on it, no? Wouldnt that give bug pharma an incentive to squash HCQ? I dont know, I am asking not to doubt you, just because I want to know.

Out of curiosity, as a dr, what is your personal opinion on HCQ?

Question for you: didn't she say enough that isn't true to make you doubt the veracity of her whole statement?

Also, given what we are seeing with our own eyes, in addition to studies, regarding longer-term effects of the infection, why would you say that a treatment protocol to avoid death would preclude wearing a mask to avoid getting the virus to begin with?
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
« Reply #77 on: July 28, 2020, 11:28:41 PM »
waiting for the thread split....

Amazing how I post a video that I barely watched, not because I have formulated any opinion of it, but mostly for the style and accent of the speaker, gets pruned and grafted to become a thread that I started with a name I never heard of (and a video that was taken down), and the poor cat with my question derived from it gets dragged along for the ride.  ::)

Must have had something to do with memory getting erased.   ;)
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Offline Mikes@Micro

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Amazing how I post a video that I barely watched
I love the way DDF sometimes spins out of control. Way out of control.
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Offline Lamppost

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My four cents -
1) anyone who goes off the rails like that shouldn't be listened to. There's clear issues. Sentence by sentence her speech made no sense.
2) HCQ advocates run in the same circles as anti vaxxers.
3) a treatment doesn't preclude the need for a vaccine at all. So no reason for conspiracy theories.
4) plenty of dubious stuff about zelenko that makes a rational person doubt the veracity of what he says on his say so

1) Her speech made sense to me. Now I think that theres plenty of other reasons not to listen to her. She is quite sketchy. But should we throw out the baby with the bathwater? Im not sure. BTW I do belive in wearing masks in general but I am open to the possibilty that were all being mindless sheep
2) 100% False. I am not an anti vaxxer by any stech of the mind. I am quite pro vaxxing. But we dont have a Covid vaccine. So the outright hatred of a very safe and well known drug that has been shown anecdotal evidence to be effective just bc its promoted by Trump seems a bit odd.
3) I agree with you I am not saying not to develop a vaccine. But to keep the world grounded until then bc HCQ is "the enemy" is crazy. Re conspiracy theories, I can think of dozens of anti trump stories that were retracted so basically anything can be a conspiracy theory. Is the Russia collusion a conspiracy theory? Are the Covington kids being the victims conspiracy theories? Is Ukraine a conspiracy theory? Jesse Smollet? You cant trust anything anymore. Not that everythibg the MSM says is false but theres a very clear agenda and teh mistakes only go one way. They themselves admit it!!
4) I am not familair with Zelenkos history so I cant comment on that.

In short I want everyone to be healthy just like everyone else. I have just seen enough propaganda about everything Trump supports to make me doubt anything the MSM says. Thats unfortunate, but thats what it has come to. The study you show me today is discredited tomorrow. In the meantime Zelnko and Immanuels patients are recovering better than anyone else
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 11:57:11 PM by Lamppost »