Author Topic: Stella Immanuel Asks Why We Don't Prescribe Prophylactic Hydroxychloroquine  (Read 4346 times)

Offline Lamppost

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 144
  • Total likes: 27
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Detroit
I love the way DDF sometimes spins out of control. Way out of control.

 ;D Yup, I hardly ever post anything here and I am getting all caught up! Its crazy. These conversations are such a waste of time bc nobody really knows a thing. Its all speculation about stuff that we really dont know. Nobody knows

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 10759
  • Total likes: 3375
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
;D Yup, I hardly ever post anything here and I am getting all caught up! Its crazy. These conversations are such a waste of time bc nobody really knows a thing. Its all speculation about stuff that we really dont know. Nobody knows

And therein lies the line between the two sides IMHO. It's not pro Trump vs anti Trump, it's not pro vax vs anti vax, nor is it R vs D. It's those that are willing to acknowledge human shortcomings and try to do the right thing within the framework given to us by G-d vs those that insist on human power to control everything sooner or later.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Lamppost

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Posts: 144
  • Total likes: 27
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Detroit
And therein lies the line between the two sides IMHO. It's not pro Trump vs anti Trump, it's not pro vax vs anti vax, nor is it R vs D. It's those that are willing to acknowledge human shortcomings and try to do the right thing within the framework given to us by G-d vs those that insist on human power to control everything sooner or later.

You got it! And bc the D's hate trump so much it has become a R vs D issue even though that doesnt make any sense. Everyone wants to be healthy. But thats the world we live in. Sad reality :(

Offline cks33

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 314
  • Total likes: 24
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Chicago
;D Yup, I hardly ever post anything here and I am getting all caught up! Its crazy. These conversations are such a waste of time bc nobody really knows a thing. Its all speculation about stuff that we really dont know. Nobody knows

Scientists know stuff. Like everything else in life there are good scientists and bad scientists. Credentials usually help decipher and seperate  them. Therein lies the major difference between trump fanatics and everyone else. They don’t in general believe in science or experts.

Offline Jellybelly

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 900
  • Total likes: 673
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Scientists know stuff. Like everything else in life there are good scientists and bad scientists. Credentials usually help decipher and seperate  them. Therein lies the major difference between trump fanatics and everyone else. They don’t in general believe in science or experts.
Lemme guess, you believe in crimate chlange and the world is ending in 7 yrs
🙄

Offline yuneeq

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 7309
  • Total likes: 1689
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: NJ
And therein lies the line between the two sides IMHO. It's not pro Trump vs anti Trump, it's not pro vax vs anti vax, nor is it R vs D. It's those that are willing to acknowledge human shortcomings and try to do the right thing within the framework given to us by G-d vs those that insist on human power to control everything sooner or later.

False. It’s proven science with common sense vs unproven science with now evidence that current science is flawed. Example - masks preventing asymptomatic people from spreading. Proven science over the last few decades said masks are effective at blocking transmission. Common sense says the same thing as well. Fake unproven science claims that corona is different and masks don’t help. That’s why I argued for masks very early despite the fake news from the CDC. The CDC guidance wasn’t science. Strangely enough, studies during corona proved that masks work exactly as anyone that believes in science or common sense would expect. Is it hard to imagine that covering your face holes would be a better block of droplets than no covering at all? A 6 year old can tell you that.

HCQ - we have a double blind randomized study among many others showing its ineffective. On the other side, we have anecdotal evidence from a few pediatricians not known for their veracity, claiming they found a miracle cure and corona is over. Proven science says you don’t go around proclaiming that corona is over. Proven science also says you don’t ban HCQ because it’s proven to be safe for decades. But unproven science says political points are worth more so let’s ban it.

The parallel between HCQ promoters and anti-vaxxers is very clear. Deny science in the face of unverified anecdotal evidence coming from Dr’s making statements not rooted in science at all, many of them anti-vaxxers as well.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 08:05:20 AM by yuneeq »

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 9549
  • Total likes: 3038
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Scientists know stuff. Like everything else in life there are good scientists and bad scientists. Credentials usually help decipher and seperate  them. Therein lies the major difference between trump fanatics and everyone else. They don’t in general believe in science or experts.
In Trump we trust.  :)
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 4103
  • Total likes: 4458
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Lemme guess, you believe in crimate chlange and the world is ending in 7 yrs
🙄

Triggered, much? He said Trump and you decided he's Al Gore?
Temporarily back to Lurker status.

Offline Jellybelly

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Aug 2016
  • Posts: 900
  • Total likes: 673
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Triggered, much? He said Trump and you decided he's Al Gore?
Not at all. Just trying to prove from climate change that there is reason to be skeptical about science. For the record, I vaccinate and don’t usually question my doctors. I’m just trying to say, that I understand people that are skeptical

Offline cks33

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 314
  • Total likes: 24
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Chicago
Not at all. Just trying to prove from climate change that there is reason to be skeptical about science. For the record, I vaccinate and don’t usually question my doctors. I’m just trying to say, that I understand people that are skeptical

Not sure what you are "trying to prove from climate change".  I am sorry if you are a climate change denier. Vast majority of scientists think its real.  And if the whole world is conspiring to make up climate change, when they can't agree on a vast majority of other things, you must really think climate change has some special factors favoring it. Even countries that don't see eye to eye on most things (China, USA) had come to an agreement to reduce CO2. But , sure, its a left wing conspiracy.

Offline cks33

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 314
  • Total likes: 24
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Chicago
I'll leave this here:

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/how-quack-doctors-and-powerful-gop-operatives-spread-misinformation-to-millions-213923648.html

You decide who to believe.


Many of the members of America’s Frontline Doctors have promoted fringe views that go against overwhelming medical evidence. The group includes a pro-Trump physician who has appeared on Fox News advocating against lockdowns and an evangelical Christian minister who has promoted bizarre claims about DNA from space aliens being used in medical treatment. Dr. Stella Immmanuel, a minister who operates a tiny walk-in medical clinic out of a strip mall in Texas, falsely claimed there was a “cure” for COVID-19 and suggested that people did not need to wear masks.

Immanuel is the author of several books which contain homophobic and extreme views, as well as writing that the “Harry Potter” series makes society “accept demonic activity and witchcraft as normal” and that “demonic music has penetrated the souls of our children and programmed them with an anti-Christ message.”

It is unclear how the group came together, but several have become popular in conservative circles for promoting views that align with Trump’s rhetoric on the pandemic.

Offline yitzgar

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 2190
  • Total likes: 595
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
I'll leave this here:

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/how-quack-doctors-and-powerful-gop-operatives-spread-misinformation-to-millions-213923648.html

You decide who to believe.


Many of the members of America’s Frontline Doctors have promoted fringe views that go against overwhelming medical evidence. The group includes a pro-Trump physician who has appeared on Fox News advocating against lockdowns and an evangelical Christian minister who has promoted bizarre claims about DNA from space aliens being used in medical treatment. Dr. Stella Immmanuel, a minister who operates a tiny walk-in medical clinic out of a strip mall in Texas, falsely claimed there was a “cure” for COVID-19 and suggested that people did not need to wear masks.

Immanuel is the author of several books which contain homophobic and extreme views, as well as writing that the “Harry Potter” series makes society “accept demonic activity and witchcraft as normal” and that “demonic music has penetrated the souls of our children and programmed them with an anti-Christ message.”

It is unclear how the group came together, but several have become popular in conservative circles for promoting views that align with Trump’s rhetoric on the pandemic.
If the only negative thing they can find about her is her religious beliefs, she must be an excellent doctor. Huffpo opinion piece masquerading as fact definitely won't change anyone heres mind....

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 4103
  • Total likes: 4458
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
If the only negative thing they can find about her is her religious beliefs, she must be an excellent doctor. Huffpo opinion piece masquerading as fact definitely won't change anyone heres mind....

She believes that cysts are devil sperm, inseminated into people by spirits during dreams. She also believes that alien DNA is used in medical treatments. Do those count as a medical opinions or religious beliefs?
Temporarily back to Lurker status.

Offline yitzgar

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 2190
  • Total likes: 595
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
She believes that cysts are devil sperm, inseminated into people by spirits during dreams. She also believes that alien DNA is used in medical treatments. Do those count as a medical opinions or religious beliefs?
This is more helpful in determining whether she is a good doctor than the fact that she is "homophobic"

Offline username

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 4305
  • Total likes: 428
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: C Heights
  • Programs: ┌──────────────────┐ │───> Ữ₴ΣЯИΛΜӘ <─── │ └──────────────────┘

HCQ - we have a double blind randomized study among many others showing its ineffective.

Can you link to these studies? I looked over this study, and as a layman, i dont see proof of anything except that Covid-19 is not (so) dangerous to the age group tested, and that the virus is not so catchy (?!)

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638

A quick (approximate)summary is that they got 800 people (median age=40, half men, half women) who were in close contact with Covid-19 cases. 400 got HCL, 400 placeba. From each group 50 got sick, and there was 1 hospitalization in each group. No deaths in either group.

And i think that the HCQ promoters agree 100% to the study's stated conclusion. They dont say that it will prevent illness, they just say it will prevent deaths.

"CONCLUSIONS
After high-risk or moderate-risk exposure to Covid-19, hydroxychloroquine did not prevent illness compatible with Covid-19 or confirmed infection when used as postexposure prophylaxis within 4 days after exposure."
^^^

Offline username

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 4305
  • Total likes: 428
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: C Heights
  • Programs: ┌──────────────────┐ │───> Ữ₴ΣЯИΛΜӘ <─── │ └──────────────────┘
And the study was back in Marck, only 16 of the symtomatic participants were tested. And as a layman, I dont understand that they initially state that would need 750 people in each group for the study to be valid. Not sure why the number was dropped to 800 total participants.

The study also states (my bold):
"This randomized trial did not demonstrate a significant benefit of hydroxychloroquine as postexposure prophylaxis for Covid-19. Whether preexposure prophylaxis would be effective in high-risk populations is a separate question, with trials ongoing. In order to end the pandemic, a reduction in community transmission is needed"

I believe that this is what the HCQ promoters are arguing.

So I guess my question is: Are there any studies about whether preexposure prophylaxis would be effective in high-risk populations ?

ETA:
So I guess my question is: Are there any studies that preexposure prophylaxis is ineffective or dangerous in high-risk populations ?

Please link if there are.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 11:27:51 AM by username »
^^^

Offline neveryou

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2019
  • Posts: 300
  • Total likes: 72
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: US


And the study was back in Marck, only 16 of the symtomatic participants were tested. And as a layman, I dont understand that they initially state that would need 750 people in each group for the study to be valid. Not sure why the number was dropped to 800 total participants.

The study also states (my bold):
"This randomized trial did not demonstrate a significant benefit of hydroxychloroquine as postexposure prophylaxis for Covid-19. Whether preexposure prophylaxis would be effective in high-risk populations is a separate question, with trials ongoing. In order to end the pandemic, a reduction in community transmission is needed"

I believe that this is what the HCQ promoters are arguing.

So I guess my question is: Are there any studies about whether preexposure prophylaxis would be effective in high-risk populations ?

Please link if there are.

Wasn't that what dr zelenko was saying and doing with his patients?

Offline username

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2008
  • Posts: 4305
  • Total likes: 428
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: C Heights
  • Programs: ┌──────────────────┐ │───> Ữ₴ΣЯИΛΜӘ <─── │ └──────────────────┘
see my edit
^^^

Offline cks33

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 314
  • Total likes: 24
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Chicago

Offline chinagel

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 3501
  • Total likes: 268
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Lemme guess, you believe in crimate chlange and the world is ending in 7 yrs
🙄
Not sure what you are "trying to prove from climate change".  I am sorry if you are a climate change denier. Vast majority of scientists think its real.  And if the whole world is conspiring to make up climate change, when they can't agree on a vast majority of other things, you must really think climate change has some special factors favoring it. Even countries that don't see eye to eye on most things (China, USA) had come to an agreement to reduce CO2. But , sure, its a left wing conspiracy.
Not bad @Jellybelly