Open letter to the Frum community

[ExGingi]

You are missing the point. There is no way a scumbag like that has what's best for our country in mind. He cares only about himself.

Is there any way that anyone with a drop of intelligence that cares about anything but himself or herself runs for public office?

How about CV, HM, CM, or DC, would any of those run for public office, I think those are a bunch of decent smart guys.  If I were to live in a battleground state I'd vote for any of those in a heartbeat. But something tells me that people like that just won't run for office.

[CountValentine]

Said every single person who has been fooled by anyone ever.

Lets see. I guess it is by community that gets scammed all the time and not the frum community. 

[aygart]

Lets see. I guess it is by community that gets scammed all the time and not the frum community. 

Not sure why you are bringing communities into this. are they part of the anyone or anywhere?

[CountValentine]

Not sure why you are bringing communities into this. are they part of the anyone or anywhere?

You are the one always claiming "everyone" is this or that. I am applying the same standard to your community.
What's wrong, you don't like it? 

[aygart]

You are the one always claiming "everyone" is this or that. I am applying the same standard to your community.
What's wrong, you don't like it? 

Huh? what are you applying to them? That they are part of everyone? Of course they are! Why would you think otherwise?

[CountValentine]

How about CV, HM, CM, or DC, would any of those run for public office, I think those are a bunch of decent smart guys.  If I were to live in a battleground state I'd vote for any of those in a heartbeat. But something tells me that people like that just won't run for office.

John McCain put all of them to shame. He ran for office. So decent people do run for office.

[Yo ssi]

@CountValentine has to pipe in, after all it's in the title "frum community"😉

[CountValentine]

@CountValentine has to pipe in, after all it's in the title "frum community"😉

So are they talking about the whole community? 

[biscotti]

Voting for who is best for the "frum community" can, in certain circumstances, actually be in direct contradiction to Torah values. If you think Trump has and will continue to mishandle the ongoing pandemic - which is to say, if you think his poor decision-making has and will continue to cost real people, frum or not, their lives - I don't see how one could think the "frum" move is to vote for him.

[Jellybelly]

Does anyone know of any rav or any daas Torah that has come out against voting for Trump?

[CountValentine]

Does anyone know of any rav or any daas Torah that has come out against voting for Trump?

Great question. 

[aygart]

Voting for who is best for the "frum community" can, in certain circumstances, actually be in direct contradiction to Torah values. If you think Trump has and will continue to mishandle the ongoing pandemic - which is to say, if you think his poor decision-making has and will continue to cost real people, frum or not, their lives - I don't see how one could think the "frum" move is to vote for him.

Meaning that this is part of figuring out who is best for the frum community?

[biscotti]

Meaning that this is part of figuring out who is best for the frum community?

What I'm saying is it should be part of figuring out how a religious Jew votes. A vote for what's best only for the people in the frum community isn't necessarily a vote that aligns with Torah values.

EDIT: Just want to add that it seems like this should especially come into consideration when a significant motive for your vote (and this is a person-by-person determination) relates to your economic wellbeing.

[ExGingi]

Voting for who is best for the "frum community" can, in certain circumstances, actually be in direct contradiction to Torah values. If you think Trump has and will continue to mishandle the ongoing pandemic - which is to say, if you think his poor decision-making has and will continue to cost real people, frum or not, their lives - I don't see how one could think the "frum" move is to vote for him.

I doubt any NY, IL or CA rabbinical authority would rule on this as those states aren't in play.

[Jellybelly]

What I'm saying is it should be part of figuring out how a religious Jew votes. A vote for what's best only for the people in the frum community isn't necessarily a vote that aligns with Torah values.

EDIT: Just want to add that it seems like this should especially come into consideration when a significant motive for your vote (and this is a person-by-person determination) relates to your economic wellbeing.

Isn’t this the reason why many chassidishe rebbes say to vote democrat? It’s for financial reasons, and the fact that it’s a against Torah values doesn’t bother them. I guess they hold that voting for a party doesn’t mean you have to share their values.

[CountValentine]

It’s for financial reasons, and the fact that it’s a against Torah values doesn’t bother them.

You are doing more harm than any anti-Semite could. 

[biscotti]

Isn’t this the reason why many chassidishe rebbes say to vote democrat? It’s for financial reasons, and the fact that it’s a against Torah values doesn’t bother them. I guess they hold that voting for a party doesn’t mean you have to share their values.

I hear you, but I think there are differences between value-sharing and practical decision-making that's costing people lives. (Just for example, the legal status of gay marriage, which regardless of the values of the winner, is highly unlikely to change.) 

If people genuinely and honestly think about the two options in terms of halachik imperative, examining and weighing those preventable deaths against practical halachik implications of a Biden presidency, then okay. But if people don't care about those deaths because they won't primarily occur in the Jewish community, and if they don't care about them in the face of increasing their own prosperity, then I just have a hard time believing those people are making a choice with proper consideration of Torah values.

[aygart]

I doubt any NY, IL or CA rabbinical authority would rule on this as those states aren't in play.

It can still be helpful for them to see a block of supporters. I think that the news articles of how the orthodox were from the few areas in NYC and NJ that went overwhelmingly for Trump had a very big effect on some of his actions.

[aygart]

I hear you, but I think there are differences between value-sharing and practical decision-making that's costing people lives. (Just for example, the legal status of gay marriage, which regardless of the values of the winner, is highly unlikely to change.) 

If people genuinely and honestly think about the two options in terms of halachik imperative, examining and weighing those preventable deaths against practical halachik implications of a Biden presidency, then okay. But if people don't care about those deaths because they won't primarily occur in the Jewish community, and if they don't care about them in the face of increasing their own prosperity, then I just have a hard time believing those people are making a choice with proper consideration of Torah values.

Does anyone think the frum community is exempt from the results of his policies on the pandemic?

[CountValentine]

Does anyone think the frum community is exempt from the results of his policies on the pandemic?

Results in which way?