Author Topic: Open letter to the Frum community  (Read 14712 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #80 on: August 12, 2020, 01:03:09 PM »
I'm old enough to remember Benghazi and the Sunday Talk shows.
Deflection when you have to answer.  ::)
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #81 on: August 12, 2020, 01:08:34 PM »
I'm confused at the evolution of this thread. Are we arguing about which politician has lied more? Which one is a worse person?
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #82 on: August 12, 2020, 01:17:44 PM »
I'm confused at the evolution of this thread. Are we arguing about which politician has lied more? Which one is a worse person?
No, everyone one is saying morals/ethics don't matter and only policy does. Then they go on to defend scumbag morals/ethics or claim someone else is worse. Hope that clears it up for you.  :)
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Offline Chapshnell

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #83 on: August 12, 2020, 01:21:48 PM »
No, everyone one is saying morals/ethics don't matter and only policy does. Then they go on to defend scumbag morals/ethics or claim someone else is worse. Hope that clears it up for you.  :)

morals dont matter with politicians. what is good for my group? my circles.. my way of life... is what we vote for. Which politicians policies will make my way of life the easiest without interruption & inconveniences..

It can come back to bite as well... For example DeBlasio.... Not foolproof..

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #84 on: August 12, 2020, 01:22:52 PM »
No, everyone one is saying morals/ethics don't matter and only policy does. Then they go on to defend scumbag morals/ethics or claim someone else is worse. Hope that clears it up for you.  :)
You missed the entire premise of this thread and the letters.


Since you ignored this question in the other thread, I will repost it here.



They both agree about99% of the substance of both letters. What do you think it is that they are disagreeing about?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Jellybelly

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #85 on: August 12, 2020, 01:25:05 PM »
morals dont matter with politicians. what is good for my group? my circles.. my way of life... is what we vote for. Which politicians policies will make my way of life the easiest without interruption & inconveniences..

It can come back to bite as well... For example DeBlasio.... Not foolproof..
But wouldn’t the low morals effect the way they govern?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #86 on: August 12, 2020, 01:26:35 PM »
morals dont matter with politicians. what is good for my group? my circles.. my way of life... is what we vote for. Which politicians policies will make my way of life the easiest without interruption & inconveniences..

It can come back to bite as well... For example DeBlasio.... Not foolproof..
Do you ever get to the point of what is best for our country?
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #87 on: August 12, 2020, 01:27:27 PM »
You missed the entire premise of this thread and the letters.
No I actually didn't.  :)
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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #88 on: August 12, 2020, 01:28:46 PM »
No I actually didn't.  :)
If you did you would think that way too, so how do you know?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #89 on: August 12, 2020, 01:31:36 PM »
If you did you would think that way too, so how do you know?
Ok fair enough. In your opinion what is the premises of this thread and the letter?
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2020, 01:32:28 PM »
Do you ever get to the point of what is best for our country?

Morals are what primaries are for. Decide whose face is best to represent the party platform. Once you get to November, it becomes about policy.
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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #91 on: August 12, 2020, 01:34:33 PM »
I'm sure if you would ask the average frum person if they fully vote for a specific party out of loyalty to the "laundry" (like a sports fan), everyone would all say that they don't, and rather, they make logical, well thought-out decisions.

However in recent years this doesn't seem to be the case anymore, and people seem to be supporting politicians out of blind loyalty. The echo chamber issue is an issue across America, not only a problem in frum communities. This is what the letter was coming to address; we should be better than this.

Offline Jellybelly

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #92 on: August 12, 2020, 01:38:06 PM »
I'm sure if you would ask the average frum person if they fully vote for a specific party out of loyalty to the "laundry" (like a sports fan), everyone would all say that they don't, and rather, they make logical, well thought-out decisions.

However in recent years this doesn't seem to be the case anymore, and people seem to be supporting politicians out of blind loyalty. The echo chamber issue is an issue across America, not only a problem in frum communities. This is what the letter was coming to address; we should be better than this.
Agree, but nowadays the parties are so far apart, it should be black and white.
On a local level many of us still vote for Democrats but on a National level it should be a no brainer

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #93 on: August 12, 2020, 01:43:20 PM »
Morals are what primaries are for. Decide whose face is best to represent the party platform. Once you get to November, it becomes about policy.
Why quote me when the response has nothing to do with the question I asked?

Now let me respond to your statement. If morals are what primaries are for then how did Trump win the primary? Those that supported him were void of morals?
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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #94 on: August 12, 2020, 01:53:14 PM »
Why quote me when the response has nothing to do with the question I asked?

Now let me respond to your statement. If morals are what primaries are for then how did Trump win the primary? Those that supported him were void of morals?

I quoted you because you asked if we ever get to a point of what's best for our country. The answer is that we do vote based on what's best for our country in November. The bar at that point is which policies are best, not which person heads the party representing those policies.

In answer to your question, I don't have a good answer. The best I have is that the people who voted for him decided that his attributes outweighed his moral deficiencies. I don't agree with that assessment, and he is not the person I would chose to sit in the Oval Office, but there is a point where the person is irrelevant and the impacts of his policies become the primary focus.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 02:05:50 PM by Lurker »
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #95 on: August 12, 2020, 02:12:09 PM »
I quoted you because you asked if we ever get to a point of what's best for our country. The answer is that we do vote based on what's best for our country in November. The bar at that point is which policies are best, not which person heads the party representing those policies.
You said you vote based on policies in November. That does not equate to what is best for the country. The policies could be best for you and detrimental to the country.
In answer to your question, I don't have a good answer.
You should have stopped there.  :)
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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #96 on: August 12, 2020, 02:18:50 PM »
You said you vote based on policies in November. That does not equate to what is best for the country. The policies could be best for you and detrimental to the country.

Who said I vote based on what's best for me personally to the detriment of my country?
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #97 on: August 12, 2020, 02:21:56 PM »
Who said I vote based on what's best for me personally to the detriment of my country?
I don't know, who said that?
We are going off on two different tangents.
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Offline Chapshnell

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #98 on: August 12, 2020, 02:50:33 PM »
Do you ever get to the point of what is best for our country?

Its a combo of both.. personal & country.. however the path the country has gone whether the NRA agenda & their members.. or the Democrats  & their liberal agendas.. everyone is what is good for me first & of course if its good for the country thats a bonus. The idea of everyone buying in whats good for the country doesnt exist, maybe in communist countries where there is no choice

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Open letter to the Frum community
« Reply #99 on: August 12, 2020, 02:55:44 PM »
The idea of everyone buying in whats good for the country doesnt exist, maybe in communist countries where there is no choice
Going to disagree.
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