Peace In The Middle East Master Thread

[Just A Jew]

I remember a discussion about when the US recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The point being made was this is a positive for the peace process because that is no longer on the table as a sticking point. If other countries follow thru with recognizing a Palestine state will that also be a positive for the peace process as it will no longer be on the table as a sticking point?

Who and what are they recognizing? Who is the government? Who are the citizens? What are the borders? Recognizing a "State of Palestine" is about as useful as recognizing a "State of Confusion" without any details.

[smurf]

I remember a discussion about when the US recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The point being made was this is a positive for the peace process because that is no longer on the table as a sticking point. If other countries follow thru with recognizing a Palestine state will that also be a positive for the peace process as it will no longer be on the table as a sticking point?

That is not the point here at all.
I'm sure many supporters of a 2 state solution would agree that now is not the right time.

[Yehuda57]

I remember a discussion about when the US recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The point being made was this is a positive for the peace process because that is no longer on the table as a sticking point. If other countries follow thru with recognizing a Palestine state will that also be a positive for the peace process as it will no longer be on the table as a sticking point?

Recognizing a Palestinian state as part of a process by definition would mean the Palestinian state wants in on that process. They do not. They want a single state "from the river to the sea". Even the "moderate" PA has refused such a deal over and over again. Hamas and its ilk haven't even pretended they want a state.

She goes into a little more has some points here:
https://x.com/EinatWilf/status/1793235906989522982

[UKinNYS]

where is the Capital? In swiss banks..

[CountValentine]

Not sure why I asked the question. I guess hoping some would see the general point.

[Just A Jew]

Not sure why I asked the question. I guess hoping some would see the general point.

Maybe express your point, and the people will see it...

[aygart]

Maybe express your point, and the people will see it...

He made it very well. If someone considers that to be an obstacle to an agreement then making it fait accompli can help the agreement happen. This was the same argument some said regarding the US embassy. It is a reasonable train of thought, but there are reasons why it may not apply here.

[gozalim]

In the hypothetical that this process and peace is benificial:

The damage to said peace by rewarding and incentivizing murder and terror of 10/7 sets peace back far more than taking this off the table moves it forward

[CountValentine]

He made it very well. If someone considers that to be an obstacle to an agreement then making it fait accompli can help the agreement happen. This was the same argument some said regarding the US embassy. It is a reasonable train of thought, but there are reasons why it may not apply here.

Thank you!!!

[Yehuda57]

Thank you!!!

And my post didn't answer? It never has been a sticking point for those who want a two state solution - that's what two state solution means by definition.

[CountValentine]

And my post didn't answer? It never has been a sticking point for those who want a two state solution - that's what two state solution means by definition.

Your post answered why the two should not be equated. I assumed you understood my point.

[Yehuda57]

Your post answered why the two should not be equated. I assumed you understood my point.

Truth is, I don't agree with the premise of your question anyway. I don't believe Jerusalem is a "sticking point" - they don't want a capital in TLV either. The entire concept of a "peace process" is a mirage.

[CountValentine]

Truth is, I don't agree with the premise of your question anyway. I don't believe Jerusalem is a "sticking point" - they don't want a capital in TLV either. The entire concept of a "peace process" is a mirage.

We are on the same page.
For the record I never made the point about sticking point in the original discussion. It was brought up to show how it would improve the peace process. I called it BS it not so many words at the time.

[Just A Jew]

He made it very well. If someone considers that to be an obstacle to an agreement then making it fait accompli can help the agreement happen. This was the same argument some said regarding the US embassy. It is a reasonable train of thought, but there are reasons why it may not apply here.

Except the idea of a State of Palestine hasn't been the obstacle. It's what that means in reality that has been the sticking point.

Who and what are they recognizing? Who is the government? Who are the citizens? What are the borders?

Saying, "We recognize the State of Palestine," without saying who or what you are talking about accomplishes nothing.

In short, it's not the same thing, because one recognizes a physical reality and reinforces it, while the other recognizes an idea, which clarifies nothing.

[Just A Jew]

We are on the same page.
For the record I never made the point about sticking point in the original discussion. It was brought up to show how it would improve the peace process. I called it BS it not so many words at the time.

I wasn't part of the original discussion, and we likely agree. It may have helped Israel's stance, but it doesn't actually get anyone closer to an agreement.

[aygart]

Except the idea of a State of Palestine hasn't been the obstacle. It's what that means in reality that has been the sticking point.

So you understand his point but disagree with it?

[CountValentine]

Just so we are clear I do not believe either of the two will help the peace process. You don't favor one side over the other if you really are trying to help the two come to an agreement.

[Just A Jew]

So you understand his point but disagree with it?

I thought I understood his point, and asked a question based on that, but then he posted insinuating that none of us got the point. So I guess I still don't get it.

A two state solution has been pretty much fait accompli in every negotiation since the 1920s. The issue isn't the idea. The issue is what that means. If all of these countries declared who, what, and where the State of Palestine is, then I'd get the comparison.

[Just A Jew]

Just so we are clear I do not believe either of the two will help the peace process. You don't favor one side over the other if you really are trying to help the two come to an agreement.

We generally agree. However, there is a difference between favoring one side and acknowledging that one side may have a stronger argument on certain points.

[mevinyavin]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/dave-chappelle-tells-abu-dhabi-audience-that-theres-a-genocide-in-gaza/
Comedian’s comments on Israel-Hamas war draw cheers, as he also says Americans should fight antisemitism so Jews there don’t feel they need Israel for protection

ABU DHABI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — American comedian Dave Chappelle said Thursday a “genocide” is striking the Gaza Strip amid the Israel-Hamas war to cheers during his performance in the capital of the United Arab Emirates, while urging Americans to fight antisemitism so Jews don’t feel like they need to be protected by Israel.

Chappelle’s comments come as Abu Dhabi has maintained its diplomatic relations with Israel even as it has increasingly criticized its conduct in the seven-month war.

Meanwhile, while pro-Palestinian marches have swept across the wider Middle East since the war was started by Hamas’s devastating October 7 attack, protests and speech remains tightly restricted in the Emirates, a federation of seven sheikdoms on the Arabian Peninsula.

Even before coming on stage, the full crowd at Abu Dhabi’s Etihad Arena cheered as DJ Trauma, who accompanied Chappelle on the trip, played the song “My Blood is Palestinian” by the Palestinian singer Mohammed Assaf. The thousands there agreed to place their switched-off mobile phones in locked pouches for the performance — a standard feature of Chappelle’s shows.

About halfway through in a wide-ranging comedy set in Abu Dhabi, Chappelle, a Muslim, initially said he had been told by his friends either to discuss the war or not. From the audience, a woman screamed: “Free Palestine!” The crowd cheered.

Chappelle then said the Gaza Strip faces a “genocide.” He also said that making Jews safer in America amid rising cases of antisemitism would make them realize they don’t need Israel as an ultimate protector.

Another moment also displayed just how diverse the crowd was in the Abu Dhabi. In telling another joke about how Jews cheer while drinking, Chappelle said “l’chaim,” or “to life” in Hebrew, which another man shouted back from the audience.

But when touching on the upcoming US election, Chappelle’s mention of President Joe Biden — who has promised “ironclad” support for Israel — drew widespread boos throughout the arena. Donald Trump drew scattered cheers.

Dave Chappelle arrives at Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts for the 22nd Annual Mark Twain Prize for American Humor in Washington, October 27, 2019. (Owen Sweeney/Invision/AP)
Chappelle, as other artists during the performance, told some racy jokes and swore. But they largely avoided discussing local politics — though Chappelle did make a sly joke about the UAE’s widespread surveillance network and another deadpanning about “how difficult is it to be gay” in the country as homosexuality is illegal.

But he also came out on stage with a falcon on his arm — a symbol for the UAE.

Chappelle, 50, won the Mark Twain Prize for American Humor in 2019. He performed at the Abu Dhabi Comedy Week.