Topic Wiki

Peace agreements reached with:
United Arab Emirates - Sep. 2020
Bahrain - Sep. 2020
Serbia - Sep. 2020
Sudan - Oct. 2020
Morocco - Dec. 2020

Likely:
Saudi Arabia
Oman

Rumored:
Qatar  HMMM
Kuwait


« Last edited by jew on October 26, 2023, 12:40:44 AM »

Author Topic: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread  (Read 139342 times)

Offline tavster

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 3577
  • Total likes: 764
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 65
    • View Profile
  • Location: Israel
  • Programs: LY TP

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15722
  • Total likes: 7834
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15722
  • Total likes: 7834
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #782 on: May 29, 2023, 04:32:39 PM »
Interesting

I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline mevinyavin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2022
  • Posts: 1696
  • Total likes: 2257
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Laptop help/deal request template
  • Location: Yerushalayim
  • Programs: Windows 10 and 11 Home, Word/Excel/Publisher 2021, Wordweb, McGill English Dictionary of Rhyme, VLC, Torat Emet, 7-Zip, Lightshot, Calibre, FDM, FreeFileSync, Teracopy, Handbreak, Lightshot
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #783 on: May 31, 2023, 09:37:34 AM »
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-transport-app-pays-nis-6-million-to-arab-drivers-who-sued-over-discrimination/

There goes the "safe" option for Gett. Now who is being discriminated against?
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline tavster

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 3577
  • Total likes: 764
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 65
    • View Profile
  • Location: Israel
  • Programs: LY TP
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #784 on: May 31, 2023, 10:28:44 AM »
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-transport-app-pays-nis-6-million-to-arab-drivers-who-sued-over-discrimination/

There goes the "safe" option for Gett. Now who is being discriminated against?
IME every time I ordered a Gett Mehadrin , it's an Arab driver that showed up  ;D

Offline mevinyavin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2022
  • Posts: 1696
  • Total likes: 2257
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Laptop help/deal request template
  • Location: Yerushalayim
  • Programs: Windows 10 and 11 Home, Word/Excel/Publisher 2021, Wordweb, McGill English Dictionary of Rhyme, VLC, Torat Emet, 7-Zip, Lightshot, Calibre, FDM, FreeFileSync, Teracopy, Handbreak, Lightshot
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #785 on: May 31, 2023, 10:31:41 AM »
IME every time I ordered a Gett Mehadrin , it's an Arab driver that showed up  ;D
Well, like the article said, they aren't mechalel Shabbos, right?
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline tavster

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 3577
  • Total likes: 764
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 65
    • View Profile
  • Location: Israel
  • Programs: LY TP
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #786 on: May 31, 2023, 10:33:48 AM »
Well, like the article said, they aren't mechalel Shabbos, right?
Specifically in my last case, the guy told me that his boss is frum and is sharing the account with him.
Many kombinot, as you'd expect

Offline mevinyavin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2022
  • Posts: 1696
  • Total likes: 2257
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Laptop help/deal request template
  • Location: Yerushalayim
  • Programs: Windows 10 and 11 Home, Word/Excel/Publisher 2021, Wordweb, McGill English Dictionary of Rhyme, VLC, Torat Emet, 7-Zip, Lightshot, Calibre, FDM, FreeFileSync, Teracopy, Handbreak, Lightshot
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #787 on: May 31, 2023, 10:40:48 AM »
Specifically in my last case, the guy told me that his boss is frum and is sharing the account with him.
Many kombinot, as you'd expect
8)
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline mevinyavin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2022
  • Posts: 1696
  • Total likes: 2257
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Laptop help/deal request template
  • Location: Yerushalayim
  • Programs: Windows 10 and 11 Home, Word/Excel/Publisher 2021, Wordweb, McGill English Dictionary of Rhyme, VLC, Torat Emet, 7-Zip, Lightshot, Calibre, FDM, FreeFileSync, Teracopy, Handbreak, Lightshot
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #788 on: June 05, 2023, 06:22:05 AM »
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/372351

Quote
Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) insists on pushing her “nakba” lie and the U.N. has given it its stamp of approval. This makes me want to go back in time and review a period that seems to have been swept under the rug and forgotten. I will hit some of the highlights.

In July of 1937, the Zionists accepted a partition plan proposed by Earl Peel, an ex-British cabinet minister. The mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, demanded independence, the annulment of the Balfour Declaration and the removal of all Jews from then-Palestine.

The mufti then restarted the “revolt” he had begun in 1936 with pogroms against the Jews of Palestine. He embraced violence and called his forces the “Holy War Army.” Nine days after Peel’s proposal, the mufti called on the German consul in Jerusalem. The mufti expressed his support and sympathy for Nazism. The British tried arresting him, but he escaped Palestine dressed as a woman.

In 1941, the mufti made his way to Italy. On Oct. 27, Benito Mussolini received him. Mussolini, an ally of Hitler, said that if the Jews wanted their own country, “They should establish Tel Aviv in America.”

“We have here in Italy 45,000 Jews and there will be no place for them in Europe,” Mussolini said.

The mufti declared that he was “very satisfied by the meeting.”

On Nov. 28, 1941, the mufti visited Adolf Hitler. According to Simon Sebag Montefiore’s epic work Jerusalem, the exchange went as follows:

The mufti’s interpreter told Hitler that by Arab tradition coffee should be served. Hitler replied that he did not drink coffee. The interpreter told Hitler the mufti still expected coffee.

Montefiore states, “Hitler replied that even the High Command was not allowed to drink coffee in his presence: he then left the room, returning with an SS guard bearing lemonade.”

The mufti and Hitler then agreed to eradicate the Jews. According to Montefiore, Hitler said to the mufti that as soon as “German armies reached the southern exit of Caucasia, Germany’s objective would then solely be the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere.”

The mufti boasted that he supported the Nazis “because I was persuaded and still am that if Germany had carried the day, no trace of the Zionists would have remained in Palestine.”

SS Obersturmbannfuhrer Walter Rauff had been assigned to exterminate the Jews of Africa and Palestine, but Germany was defeated before the genocidal plan could be carried out.

On Nov. 29, 1947, the U.N. voted in favor of another “partition plan.” The Arabs again rejected it, while Israel accepted it. Arab mobs poured into Jerusalem, lynching Jews, firing guns, looting Jewish shops and screaming “butcher the Jews.” On Dec. 7, 1947 Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion’s convoy was ambushed.

On May 14, 1948 Israel declared statehood. U.S. President Harry S. Truman was praised by his lifelong friend Eddie Jacobson for having “helped create Israel.” Truman responded, “I am Cyrus! I am Cyrus!”

Six Arab countries then invaded the new State of Israel. Over 6,000 Israelis were killed in the war that followed.

From 1947-1949 Arab leaders, including the mufti, told the Arabs of Israel to leave their homes, promising they could return when the Jews had been wiped out.

The Jews tried to convince the Arabs to stay. Golda Meir went to Haifa to try to convince the city’s Arabs not to leave. But the Arabs left of their own volition.

Historical revisionists are purposefully trying to turn the world against Israel and the Jewish people. This cannot be allowed. We must constantly revisit our past truthfully to advance our civilization.

Dr. Joseph Frager is a lifelong activist and physician. He is chairman of Israel advocacy for the Rabbinical Alliance of America, chairman of the executive committee of American Friends of Ateret Cohanim and executive vice president of the Israel Heritage Foundation.
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline mevinyavin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2022
  • Posts: 1696
  • Total likes: 2257
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Laptop help/deal request template
  • Location: Yerushalayim
  • Programs: Windows 10 and 11 Home, Word/Excel/Publisher 2021, Wordweb, McGill English Dictionary of Rhyme, VLC, Torat Emet, 7-Zip, Lightshot, Calibre, FDM, FreeFileSync, Teracopy, Handbreak, Lightshot
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #789 on: June 06, 2023, 07:21:56 AM »
Disgusting.


Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline JMHO

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2020
  • Posts: 1443
  • Total likes: 1259
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: NYC
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #790 on: June 06, 2023, 08:18:38 AM »
Disgusting.
What are you referring to?

Offline mevinyavin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2022
  • Posts: 1696
  • Total likes: 2257
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Laptop help/deal request template
  • Location: Yerushalayim
  • Programs: Windows 10 and 11 Home, Word/Excel/Publisher 2021, Wordweb, McGill English Dictionary of Rhyme, VLC, Torat Emet, 7-Zip, Lightshot, Calibre, FDM, FreeFileSync, Teracopy, Handbreak, Lightshot
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #791 on: June 06, 2023, 09:12:44 AM »
What are you referring to?
This is how the US government can claim to be on the side of normalization while shooting it in the foot at the same time.
We want this, but we want to make sure there is a two-state solution.
This is in our best interest - but don't forget our other interests before you consider this.
We are very upset at you for the gas stunts you pulled, and we want to make sure we are taken care of before you join hands with Israel.
To the NY Times writer from the editor: you mentioned Israel, did you make sure to bash the judicial reforms? Make sure everyone knows the reason the whole mid-east is unstable is because of that right-wing government and the reforms.

They do get points for crediting Trump for the Abraham Accords, though. So that makes the rest of the article all better.
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15722
  • Total likes: 7834
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline mevinyavin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2022
  • Posts: 1696
  • Total likes: 2257
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Laptop help/deal request template
  • Location: Yerushalayim
  • Programs: Windows 10 and 11 Home, Word/Excel/Publisher 2021, Wordweb, McGill English Dictionary of Rhyme, VLC, Torat Emet, 7-Zip, Lightshot, Calibre, FDM, FreeFileSync, Teracopy, Handbreak, Lightshot
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #793 on: June 12, 2023, 04:21:18 AM »
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-transport-app-pays-nis-6-million-to-arab-drivers-who-sued-over-discrimination/

There goes the "safe" option for Gett. Now who is being discriminated against?

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/372649
Quote
An NIF lawsuit that discriminates against Orthodox Jews in Israel
Will Jerusalem District Court order millions of shekels to be handed over to the New Israel Fund?
Susie Dym
  Jun 12, 2023, 10:24 AM (GMT+3)

Here’s the story: On 7 June, the New Israel Fund announced “a compromise agreement submitted to the Jerusalem District Court for approval”. This was in the context of “a huge class action lawsuit” which the Israel Religious Action Center (IRAC) brought against the Gett Taxi app.

Israel Religious Action Center is a New Israel Fund organization. The New Israel Fund said the agreement would require Gett Taxi to eliminate its Gett Mehadrin service. This service does not drive on Shabbat and the Fund regards the service as discriminatory against Arabs. Also, Gett Taxi would be obliged to pay at least NIS 6 million as “compensation”. These millions would be paid to Arab taxi drivers -- and also to “two NGOs that promote shared living between Jews and Arabs”. Both are New Israel Fund organizations.

The Reform movement’s Zionist arm praised the development, accusing Israel of racism and advocating the concept of Israel as “a state for all its citizens”. New Israel Fund’s “Religious Action Center” , they said, had taken “a big step against racism in the Jewish State”.

The Reform movement also reported proudly that they had just protested against the presence of representatives of the Government of Israel in New York. “Theirs is a Zionism of chauvinism and supremacy, ... ethnic domination ... whereby one ethic group rules over another”, said the Reform movement. They urged that “Zionism must ... aspire to ... equality for ‘all its citizens’” which is “beyond a mere respectability to its non-Jewish populace”.

The two “New Israel Fund” organizations which will receive the money are Hand in Hand, a network of Jewish-Arab schools, and Access Israel which ostensibly does no more than promote rights for the disabled. However, Access Israel in fact works behind the scenes to radicalize the disabled they are helping. For example, in 2015, an Access Israel manager announced on the New Israel Fund website that his organization would “produce a series of online lectures in sign language about the phenomenon of racism”, adding that “Shatil is a wonderful arena for activism”. All New Israel Fund groups are organized by Shatil.

The court, in my opinion, should not be waving millions of shekels in the direction of the New Israel Fund. Here are five reasons why:

First, Jews should be entitled to prefer businesses that keep Shabbat. This is the Jewish state. Preference is not necessarily discrimination.

Second, the court should not second-guess the judgment of passengers who are fearful for their safety. This, and not racism, is the reason for reluctance of some to travel with Arab drivers. There have been incidents in the past.

Third, the court should not draw far-reaching conclusions from a single statement recorded secretly from a single manager at Gett Mehadrin.

Fourth, even if the court insists on branding the service as “discriminatory” and “racist”, it is controversial enough for the court to “eliminate” this service given to the Orthodox population in deference to Arab drivers lined up by a political organization like the New Israel Fund. It is extremely inappropriate for a court to, additionally, move funds in the direction of the (grantees of) the New Israel Fund who were the ones who filed the suit to begin with. If Gett wants to donate to this progressive organization’s grantees, let them do so of their own free will.

Fifth, this sort of lawsuit increases the cost of doing business in Israel by making it expensive to try to do anything for the Orthodox.

Sixth, the lawsuit unfairly disparages Israel as allegedly being a discriminatory, racist society. This is why the lawsuit should be firmly discouraged by the court, and not rewarded with the proposed “agreement”.

Susie Dym is a spokesperson for Mattot Arim, an Israeli NGO, working toward peace-for-peace since 1992.
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline tavster

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 3577
  • Total likes: 764
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 65
    • View Profile
  • Location: Israel
  • Programs: LY TP
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #794 on: June 13, 2023, 06:26:34 AM »
China Hosts Palestinian Leader After Mediating Saudi-Iran Deal
Tuesday, June 13, 2023 01:05 PM
By Bloomberg News

(Bloomberg) --China is hosting Palestinian Authority leader Mahmoud Abbas as it seeks to strengthen its diplomatic influence in the Middle East.
Abbas’s plane touched down in Beijing on Tuesday, according to China Central Television. Chinese officials earlier said they would be willing to facilitate peace talks between the Palestinian Authority and the Israeli government.

In recent months, violence has worsened in Israel. In May, the Palestinian militant group, Islamic Jihad, launched around 100 rockets at Israel, which responded by assassinating four of its top commanders and some 20 civilians.

While it’s not clear if either side in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is seeking a new mediator, President Xi Jinping has sought to bolster his image as a peacemaker on the world stage as ties with the US and its allies deteriorate.

“China has all along firmly supported the Palestinian people’s just cause of restoring their legitimate national rights,” according to a statement from the foreign ministry noting Friday remarks from spokesman Wang Wenbin. “President Abbas is an old and good friend of the Chinese people and the first Arab head of state to be hosted by China this year.”

Until recently, Beijing didn’t have a track record of negotiating breakthrough deals as a third party.

That changed in March when it helped broker a detente between Iran and Saudi Arabia, after years of diplomatic deadlock between the historic rivals. The tentative agreement helped enhance Beijing’s reputation as a responsible international player, particularly with the so-called Global South.

Beijing has also offered a vague blueprint for peace between Russia and Ukraine. That proposal faces widespread skepticism because of China’s close ties with President Vladimir Putin’s government and its call for a ceasefire that would leave Russian troops in control of Ukrainian territory.

China’s latest efforts underscore how Xi, following up on his Belt-and-Road infrastructure lending program, is seeking to extend his influence in the Middle East, Latin America and Africa

Offline mevinyavin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2022
  • Posts: 1696
  • Total likes: 2257
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Laptop help/deal request template
  • Location: Yerushalayim
  • Programs: Windows 10 and 11 Home, Word/Excel/Publisher 2021, Wordweb, McGill English Dictionary of Rhyme, VLC, Torat Emet, 7-Zip, Lightshot, Calibre, FDM, FreeFileSync, Teracopy, Handbreak, Lightshot
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #795 on: June 15, 2023, 08:27:30 AM »
https://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/larrys-letters/larrys-letters-ryanair-flight-attendant-pally-pal/2023/06/15/

Quote
Michael O’Leary
CEO Ryanair

Dear Chairman O’Leary,

I don’t know if you are pleased or not over one of your flight attendants announcing that the airplane landing at the Ben Gurion Airport in Israel was arriving in Palestine. I’m sure you know that there has never been nor is there now a distinct Arab country called Palestine, so your flight attendant imbued with passionate hatred of Israel retendering her incapable of actually saying the word Israel resorted to insulting Ryanair’s Jewish passengers.

One wonders whether she contemplated poisoning their food and drinks. I’m sure future Jewish passengers will think about that before they book with Ryanair.

Most airlines adhere to a policy of making their passengers feel at home and appreciated. I can’t imagine that Ryanair’s stockholders appreciate you hiring someone who thinks your passengers are enemies. I urge you fire that person or if the flight attendants union objects, station her is your office in Gaza City where she will feel at home in Palestine.

Sincerely yours,

Larry Shapiro
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline mevinyavin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2022
  • Posts: 1696
  • Total likes: 2257
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Laptop help/deal request template
  • Location: Yerushalayim
  • Programs: Windows 10 and 11 Home, Word/Excel/Publisher 2021, Wordweb, McGill English Dictionary of Rhyme, VLC, Torat Emet, 7-Zip, Lightshot, Calibre, FDM, FreeFileSync, Teracopy, Handbreak, Lightshot
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #796 on: June 21, 2023, 09:23:31 AM »
It doesn't feel like everything is breaking loose here where I am, but the article sure sounds that way... A few tefilos would not be amiss.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/373078

Quote
Following the funerals of the victims of yesterday's murderous attack at Eli Junction on Route 60, numerous violent riots have broken out at several locations in Samaria. Groups of Israeli youth are reported to have entered Palestinian cities and torched vehicles, shops, and homes, as well as burned agricultural areas in the surrounding countryside. Roads in and out of the cities were blocked with boulders, building materials, and burning tires. In some places, the residents of the cities clashed with the rioters, leading to numerous injuries from both parties. In the Palestinian city of Huwara in Samaria, an Israeli citizen was reported to have drawn and fired his handgun during a clash with local residents. In another location, an IDF soldier fired over the heads of Israeli demonstrators to disperse them. The IDF reported that the Israeli citizens are being removed from the cities and that fire services are working to stop the blazes. The mayor of Turmus Aya, a Palestinian Authority city approximately a kilometer from the scene of the attack, claims that a group of approximately one hundred fifty Israeli youths entered the city and burned sixty cars and thirty homes. An Israeli security source reported that only twenty cars and fifteen homes were damaged. "These acts are disgusting. This is not increasing deterrence, it is damaging it," the source claimed. "They are bringing more and more people into the circle of hate and vengeance, and every soldier that must be sent to stop the riots is another one that is not fighting terror. Citizens must not take the law into their hands. The IDF is working to restore order in the area." The source further stated that no one had been arrested, and all suspects had fled the scene.
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline mevinyavin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2022
  • Posts: 1696
  • Total likes: 2257
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Laptop help/deal request template
  • Location: Yerushalayim
  • Programs: Windows 10 and 11 Home, Word/Excel/Publisher 2021, Wordweb, McGill English Dictionary of Rhyme, VLC, Torat Emet, 7-Zip, Lightshot, Calibre, FDM, FreeFileSync, Teracopy, Handbreak, Lightshot
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #797 on: June 22, 2023, 09:57:01 AM »
...And this is how it looks from the onlooker's viewpoint (ie what they are reading about us)


Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!

Offline tavster

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Posts: 3577
  • Total likes: 764
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 65
    • View Profile
  • Location: Israel
  • Programs: LY TP
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #798 on: June 23, 2023, 03:21:08 AM »
Erdogan, Netanyahu Plan Meeting to Ease Turkey-Israel Tensions

The two leaders look to meet in Ankara as soon as next month
Gas development may be among the topics to be discussed
(Bloomberg) --Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu plan to meet as early as next month as they try to improve long-frosty relations between their countries, according to people familiar with the situation.
Turkey and Israel, once close military allies, are collaborating more on tourism and business — and are seeking to start gas shipments to Turkey — after over a decade of tensions. Ties hit a low point after a 2010 Israeli raid on a Turkish flotilla headed to the Gaza Strip. They only resumed full diplomatic relations in August last year.

The disruption to supply chains and commodity markets from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is providing a fresh incentive to mend ties, said the people, who asked not to be identified discussing confidential matters.

So are Iran’s activities in the region. Turkey is concerned about the growing influence in Syria of the Islamic Republic, which backs groups hostile to Israel including Hezbollah in neighboring Lebanon. Ankara and the Israeli government also have shared interests over Azerbaijan, backing its territorial claims against Armenia and sending drones to help Baku.

Both Israel and Turkey are seeking to improve ties with other Middle Eastern states. Israel established diplomatic relations with nations such as the United Arab Emirates and Morocco in 2020, and is pushing to do the same with Saudi Arabia. Turkey and Saudi Arabia patched up ties last year.

Israeli President Isaac Herzog met Erdogan early last year, a key initial step to repairing relations.

Erdogan and Netanyahu could meet in Ankara in July, schedules permitting, according to the people.

Both are under domestic pressure. The Israeli leader has faced mass protests over his attempt to weaken the power of the judiciary, while Erdogan has revamped his economic team since his re-election last month in a bid to end a cost-of-living crisis.

Talks may encompass the potential export of liquefied natural gas from a field off the Gaza Strip to Europe via Turkey, they said, although it’s unclear how much gas is there and distributing it remains years away. There are also no LNG export terminals, which typically cost billions of dollars to build, in Israel or gas pipelines running from there to Turkey.

Turkey’s government and Israel’s embassy in Ankara declined to comment.

Divisions Remain
Turkey and Israel remain divided over the status of Palestinian territories. Israel also accuses Ankara of supporting Hamas, the Islamic militant group that runs the Gaza Strip.

A gas agreement may help heal the rift, the people said. Netanyahu’s office said Sunday that Israel would allow the development of a field off Gaza as part of efforts to bolster the ailing Palestinian economy and maintain regional calm.

Bilateral trade between Turkey and Israel is increasing and tourism is booming as cruise lines resume trips and Israeli companies start direct flights to Turkish resorts such as Antalya and Bodrum. More than 1 million Israeli tourists are expected to visit Turkey this year, compared with 843,000 in 2022.

Turkey’s exports to Israel increased 11% to $7 billion last year, while imports were around $2.5 billion, according to official Turkish government data.

Israeli companies are seeking to do more business with Israel, partly higher shipping costs are making supplies from China more expensive. Israel mainly imports, steel, iron and other construction materials from Turkey.

To contact the reporter on this story:
Selcan Hacaoglu in Ankara at shacaoglu@bloomberg.net

To contact the editors responsible for this story:
Paul Wallace at pwallace25@bloomberg.net;
Onur Ant at oant@bloomberg.net
John Bowker

Offline mevinyavin

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2022
  • Posts: 1696
  • Total likes: 2257
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Laptop help/deal request template
  • Location: Yerushalayim
  • Programs: Windows 10 and 11 Home, Word/Excel/Publisher 2021, Wordweb, McGill English Dictionary of Rhyme, VLC, Torat Emet, 7-Zip, Lightshot, Calibre, FDM, FreeFileSync, Teracopy, Handbreak, Lightshot
Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #799 on: June 26, 2023, 05:30:25 AM »
Great piece of history. Matches what I remember reading in Howard Sachar's history book, with some extra background.

https://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/the-lid-jeffdunetz/which-pres-didnt-get-credit-for-creating-a-strong-us-israel-alliance/2023/06/26/

Quote
Which Pres. Didn’t Get Credit For Creating A Strong US/Israel Alliance?
By Jeff Dunetz - 7 Tammuz 5783 – June 26, 2023
As U.S. Presidents go. he was one of the most supportive of Israel. He armed Israel after the Six-Day War and before the Yom Kippur War, allowing the Jewish state to protect itself.

One of the biggest falsehoods about Israeli/U.S. history is that the U.S. wasn’t always the supplier or weapon to Israel. France was the Jewish State’s biggest military benefactor for the first twenty years of her existence. Czechoslovakia sold the nascent State of Israel weapons, beginning with the War For Independence in 1948.

The U.S. may have been the first country to recognize Israel after it declared independence in May 1948. Still wanting to do the right thing, Harry Truman ignored the objections of an Arabist State Department (some things never change).

The War for Independence was not won with American Weapons. As the U.S. refused to sell weapons to Israel.

Great Britain went further. Beginning in 1947, Great Britain urged the Arab states to attack Israel.

In 1956, after Egypt closed the Suez Canal, Israel joined France and Britain in a military effort to take over the Sinai and open up shipping lanes closed by the Egyptians. The U.S. forced the end of the three-country attack. And they also forced the three countries to leave the Sinai. Egypt learned from the U.S. demand on the first day of the Six-Day War they shut the Suez Canal again.

There was no U.S. military help during the Six-Day War. The Arab nations received a healthy supply of arms from the USSR. It wasn’t until after the Six-Day War and a meeting with President Lyndon Baines Johnson that the U.S. began to move toward a strong friendship with the State of Israel. In fact, it wasn’t till LBJ was President that the United States became Israel’s chief diplomatic and primary arms supplier.

Soon after the 1967 war, Soviet premier Aleksei Kosygin asked Johnson at the Glassboro Summit why the U.S. supported Israel when there were 80 million Arabs and only 3 million Israelis. “Because it is right,” responded the straight-shooting Texan.

Among his jobs, during his almost three-decades-long service to Israel, Yehuda Avner was a speechwriter and advisor to PM Levi Eshkol. After the PM met with LBJ, he wrote a blow-by-blow story for the Jerusalem Post about their meeting called On The Seventh Day. The seventh day referred to the day after the Six-Day War.

Eshkol’s meeting with Johnson resulted in the first substantial military aid from the U.S. to Israel. As Avner’s article is very long, the below is edited by taking the emotional and physical descriptions of the involved parties.

Israeli Prime Minister Levi Eshkol sought an urgent meeting with President Lyndon Johnson, who, in January 1968, extended to him a friendly invitation to his Texas ranch.

Without ado, the Prime Minister bent his mind to the hub of his argument:

“THE HEART OF MY MISSION, MR. PRESIDENT,” HE SAID, “IS HOW TO CREATE PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST AT A TIME WHEN THE SYRIAN AND EGYPTIAN ARMIES ARE BEING REBUILT BY THE SOVIETS AT A MENACING PACE – SO FAST THAT THE ARAB LEADERS ARE CONTEMPLATING RENEWED WAR.”

“How fast?” asked Johnson.

“Egypt, Syria, and Iraq have already replenished their air forces to a combined strength of 460 fighters and 47 bombers,” answered Eshkol. “Egypt alone is now almost back to its prewar air strength. Moreover, the quality of their aircraft is vastly improved.”

“And their ground forces, what of them?” asked the president.

“In tanks,” replied the premier, referring to a typed page, “the Egyptians are almost back to their prewar strength. The Egyptian navy is stronger than before, with rocket-equipped vessels. The number of ground troops is rapidly rising beyond their June 1967 strength.”

“Do you see signs of an actual Russian physical presence there?”

“Certainly. Our assessment is that there are at least 2,500 Soviet military experts in F-4 Fighter Jet today.”

“OK, THAT’S THE ARAB SIDE. NOW, WHAT ABOUT YOUR SIDE? WHAT DO YOU HAVE?
(…)“We have no more than 150 aircraft, all French, 66 of them virtually obsolete. The French are contracted to send us 50 more, but because of their boycott, we won’t get them."

“So what are you asking for exactly? Spell it out.”

“What I’m asking for, Mr. President, is the one aircraft that has the necessary range and versatility to enable us to face down our enemies. I’m asking for your F-4 Phantom jets.” The Phantom was America’s newest state-of-the-art fighter bomber.

“Mr. President, please understand my country is extremely vulnerable. One defeat in the field can be fatal to our survival. What I ask of you is the minimum for our self-defense. Without those Phantoms, we will be deprived of our minimum security. We need 50 Phantoms as rapidly as possible.” (…)

“We need the tools to help bring that peace about. I regret to say that the United States is the only source we have for those tools. Within two years, our Arab neighbors will have 900-1,000 Soviet aircraft. So it’s an either/or situation. Either you provide us with the arms we need, or you leave us to our fate. It’s as simple as that. Mr. President, Israel is pleading for your help.”

President Johnson answered, “I am impressed by your statement, Mr. Prime Minister. However, as you know, we are facing a difficult situation in Vietnam, calling on our resources. I suggest, therefore, you look elsewhere to find your weapons, not only here in the United States.”

Eshkol responded, “Please tell me where. I would be delighted to look elsewhere if you can give me an address.”

“That’s as maybe, but I regret that your visit here is so closely tied to this matter of the Phantoms. Planes won’t radically change your realities. Your big problem is how two-and-a-half million Jews can live in a sea of Arabs.”

Secretary of State Dean Rusk chimed in, “Mr. Prime Minister, in all honesty, whatever efforts Israel makes in the field of military build-up, the Arabs will better you every time. If the Arabs see an Israel they cannot live with, one that is intolerable to them. They won’t back away from an arms race. On the contrary, they will turn increasingly to the Soviets, to the detriment of the American interest. So, what we would like to hear from you today is, what kind of an Israel do you want the Arabs to live with, and what kind of an Israel do you want the American people to support.”

“These are difficult remarks you are making, Mr. Secretary,” said Eshkol stonily. “All I can say to you now is that our victory in the Six-Day War blocked the Soviet Union from taking over the Middle East, and that, surely, is an American interest. As for the kind of Israel the Arabs can live with and which the American people can support, the only answer I can presently give is an Israel whose map will be different from the one on the eve of the Six-Day War.”

“How different?” quizzed Rusk.

Eshkol responded from his heart. “Please understand, we did not want that June war. We could have lived indefinitely within the old pre-1967 armistice lines. But now that there has been a war, we cannot return to those old, vulnerable frontiers.”

Trying to cool things down, Johnson suggested a break. When the talks restarted, LBJ said he would like to try and get a peace process going, to which Eshkol interjected with uncharacteristic adamancy:

“Mr. President, I would love somebody here in this room to tell me when and where, and how I can get a peace process going. I wouldn’t be here asking for Phantoms if somebody could tell me that. But instead of peace, we are faced with unprecedented Arab rearmament that again threatens our very existence. The immediate issue is the means to defend ourselves against another attempted onslaught. Israel feels weaker now than before the Six-Day War.  Mr. President,” he galloped on, “the State of Israel is the last chance for the Jewish people. I pray with all my heart to avoid another war. But I know of only one address to acquire the means to defend ourselves – and that address is you.”

Robert McNamara raised a finger: “Having studied the evidence, it seems clear to me that two-and-a-half million Jews truly cannot withstand the whole of the Arab world, particularly if the Arabs are assisted by the Russians. Therefore, the supply of a substantial number of the most sophisticated aircraft could only increase Russian support for the Arabs. At the same time, there is no reason for Israel to say it has been abandoned. This will not occur while President Johnson is president. However, for the U.S. to supply you with planes might greatly increase the supply of Russian planes to the Arabs. So, given these unknowns, we have to proceed with the utmost caution.”

This obscure and contradictory comment aroused the ire of General Motti Hod, commander of the IAF, who countered: “The arms race, Mr. McNamara, has never been influenced by what we have in our hangers. The only limiting factor is the Arab capacity to absorb the aircraft the Soviets supply.”

And then to Johnson, “Your secretary of defense says that as long as you, Mr. President, are president, Israel will never be abandoned. Might I suggest that the one way of guaranteeing that, and of assuring that US forces will never have to come to our rescue, is by keeping our air force strong.” After another break, LBJ spoke:

“I think we can agree on three objectives. First, there is the need to do what we can to bring about a stable peace. Second, we are all anxious to deter, if possible, an arms race. Third, the United States has hope and a purpose of assuring, if necessary, adequate equipment to the Israel Air Force to defend itself. And in connection with this goal, I suggest that the following sentence be written into our joint communiqué at the conclusion of this session.”

He picked up a paper and read: “The president agreed to keep Israel’s defense capability under active and sympathetic review in light of all the relevant factors, including the shipment of military equipment by others into the area.” To this, he added by way of explanation, “This statement will be helpful in deterring the Arabs and might even push them toward restraint. It also says to the Soviets, ‘Stop, look, and listen.’ And it gives you something concrete, Mr. Prime Minister, to stand on.”

Then came the good news the President ignored the advice of his aides.  Yes, you’ll have your Phantoms,” and a deeply relieved prime minister responded, “Thank you, Mr. President. I thank you from the heart.”

Lyndon B. Johnson kept his word. His decision began a profound change in the relationship between Jerusalem and Washington was set in motion. America threw in its strategic lot with Israel so that, henceforth, the United States and Israel would become close allies.

Many U.S. presidents have reputations as particularly good friends of the Jewish State, Truman, Bill Clinton, and Donald Trump, for example.

When people list presidents who were particularly good friends of the Jewish State, one good friend usually gets no credit– Lyndon Baines Johnson, the man who turned America’s causal relationship with Israel into a strong alliance. Without Johnson providing warplanes and other arms, an Israeli victory in the Yom Kippur War may have ended with a different result, Or at the very least, would have resulted in more deaths on both sides.

{Reposted from The Lid}
Quote from: ExGingi
Echo chambers are boring and don't contribute much to deeper thinking and understanding!