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Peace agreements reached with:
United Arab Emirates - Sep. 2020
Bahrain - Sep. 2020
Serbia - Sep. 2020
Sudan - Oct. 2020
Morocco - Dec. 2020

Likely:
Saudi Arabia
Oman

Rumored:
Qatar  HMMM
Kuwait


« Last edited by jew on October 26, 2023, 12:40:44 AM »

Author Topic: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread  (Read 154856 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #920 on: October 25, 2023, 07:23:09 PM »
Murder?
I crossed it out because there is thin line between the two.
All of who?
Those who took part in this horrific attack.
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Offline yelped

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #921 on: October 25, 2023, 07:29:53 PM »
I crossed it out because there is thin line between the two.Those who took part in this horrific attack.
I'm confused. In what world is there a thin line between killing someone who aims to murder you and everyone in your country, aids, abbets, gives the order, or does it with his own hands, and murdering?

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #922 on: October 25, 2023, 07:34:56 PM »
I'm confused. In what world is there a thin line between killing someone who aims to murder you and everyone in your country, aids, abbets, gives the order, or does it with his own hands, and murdering?
Good thing that wasn't a loaded question.  ;)
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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #923 on: October 25, 2023, 07:38:47 PM »
Good thing that wasn't a loaded question.  ;)
Still confused. In what way are the Hamas leaders in Qatar and the IRGC not murderers?

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #924 on: October 25, 2023, 07:41:48 PM »
Still confused. In what way are the Hamas leaders in Qatar and the IRGC not murderers?
There is a thin line between carrying out assignations and calling them murder. That is way I crossed it out because I wasn't going to call them murders.
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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #925 on: October 25, 2023, 07:48:13 PM »
There is a thin line between carrying out assignations and calling them murder. That is way I crossed it out because I wasn't going to call them murders.
???

Offline justaregularguy

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #926 on: October 26, 2023, 12:38:02 AM »
No, of course not.

What I think Israel should do is play the long game. The very loooong game.

Israel should consider and agree to a ceasefire in the near future for humanitarian reasons. They can state that they have achieved significant results in severely weakening Hamas. For the time being, they have accomplished what was intended.

Meanwhile, Israel should significantly enhance and bolster their traditional intelligence methods, networks, spies and human sources etc. the old school way.

In 2-3 years, they should launch an attack on Hamas out of left field. Within a narrow window, an operation could be launched to capture or neutralize the entire leadership of Hamas, dismantle their infrastructure in Gaza, disrupt supply lines all the way back to Iran, target their propaganda efforts, and anything and everything in between.

Consider how Hamas achieved its remarkable success. Their key strategy involved meticulous planning and a low-key approach, which included deliberately misleading the Israelis and lulling them into complacency, those were primary factors. Israel should do the same.

Remember, revenge is dish best served cold.

(If anyone is connected, let those in HaKirya know that I'm available.)
I think this approach is not how Israel conducts itself. Theyíre called the Israel Defense Forces, not Offense Forces.
Yes I understand in theory hamas is a threat to isreal so any action they take can be called defensive, but technically launching an attack is an offense, which Israel does not do unless attacked first (see all the wars of Israel) or super super threatened with imminent destruction (see 6 day war)

And honestly, it doesnít seem to be a ďthingĒ in modern times to invade and attack-it just looks like a conquering kingdom.

Again, Israel is NOT looking to conquer land! Iím not saying that. Iím saying striking first without imminent threat (when you say attack in 2-3 years from now doesnít sound like only during an imminent threat) isnít ípopularí


Theyíre in the heat of it right now. So what to do.

I really think what that son of hamas person said in the interview (somewhere) is the best strategy.

A siege is the best kind of warfare in history.

Help as best they can to evacuate civilians to areas of relative safety, and then just wait till they come out of the tunnels.
If conversation about saving hostages comes up, id say it could be worth letting in some aid to get hostages.
Yes aid goes into a missle thatís shot at Israel.
 Hashem in His infinite kindness has caused and will continue to cause those rockets to have an exceedingly low mortality rate BH. To trade aid to for sure save a hostages life on the chance of maybe having a rocket kill someone else- ברי עדיף.

But donít let up the siege once the hostages return!! That will be THE biggest difficulty in this strategy.
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline AsherO

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #927 on: October 26, 2023, 09:15:43 AM »
https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-theres-no-going-back-to-pre-war-status-quo-there-must-be-vision-of-2-states/

Not just is this kind of statement from Biden premature,  itís outright dangerous as itís rewarding Hamas for the October 7th atrocities, especially considering that there are still hostages in Gaza.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #928 on: October 26, 2023, 09:46:36 AM »
https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-theres-no-going-back-to-pre-war-status-quo-there-must-be-vision-of-2-states/

Not just is this kind of statement from Biden premature,  itís outright dangerous as itís rewarding Hamas for the October 7th atrocities, especially considering that there are still hostages in Gaza.

I don't agree. He has stated pretty clearly that the two-state solution is after Hamas is destroyed, so I don't see how that rewards *them*. It does reward "Palestinian resistance", but it seems getting people to separate Hamas from Palestinians for condemnation is tough enough, I'll take Biden being strongly against Hamas.

As I'm sure you know, I don't agree with Biden on the two-state solution, it is not at all a realistic possibility. But I hardly expect any US president to publicly state they are no longer supporting a two-state solution.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #929 on: October 26, 2023, 10:29:09 AM »
I don't agree. He has stated pretty clearly that the two-state solution is after Hamas is destroyed, so I don't see how that rewards *them*. It does reward "Palestinian resistance", but it seems getting people to separate Hamas from Palestinians for condemnation is tough enough, I'll take Biden being strongly against Hamas.

As I'm sure you know, I don't agree with Biden on the two-state solution, it is not at all a realistic possibility. But I hardly expect any US president to publicly state they are no longer supporting a two-state solution.

It doesnít matter that he qualifies it with saying Israel should destroy Hamas, heís still pandering to something they value. I donít either expect him to say he no longer supports a two state solution (wishful thinking), I just donít expect him to bring it up now and see it as counter-productive when he does.

ETA: I also sympathize with the Palestinian people and their plight, but giving them a state wonít be a solution until they have a responsible governing body that can be granted statehood, by my standards even the PA doesnít qualify.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2023, 10:32:17 AM by AsherO »
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #930 on: October 26, 2023, 10:33:24 AM »
heís still pandering to something they value.

Who is they? Hamas? They value a two-state solution? That would be news to them. How many intifadas do they need to launch before people get the message they don't want a two state solution?

ETA: this is still something that even people who know what's going on get wrong. Hamas has never, in public nor private, expressed a desire or even willingness for a two state solution. They do not want land or autonomy. They want all Jews gone. They have never hidden that.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2023, 10:37:22 AM by Yehuda57 »

Offline AsherO

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #931 on: October 26, 2023, 10:46:49 AM »
Who is they? Hamas? They value a two-state solution? That would be news to them. How many intifadas do they need to launch before people get the message they don't want a two state solution? .

Even if they donít actually want a state, they want America to think/state theyíre entitled to one. Even if you are of the position that separates Hamas from the Palestinian people and claim Hamas doesnít represent the common folk, they still claim to.
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Offline yelped

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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #933 on: October 26, 2023, 10:56:16 AM »
Even if they donít actually want a state, they want America to think/state theyíre entitled to one.

Source?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2023, 11:08:46 AM by Yehuda57 »

Offline AsherO

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #934 on: October 26, 2023, 11:10:39 AM »
Source?

Logic: theyíre fighting against the alleged oppression of the Palestinian people, and will take any support they can get
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #935 on: October 26, 2023, 11:18:33 AM »
Logic: theyíre fighting against the alleged oppression of the Palestinian people, and will take any support they can get

You clearly missed my point. They do not want a two state solution and have been VERY vocal about not wanting one. I'm not denying they want support, but when have they ever said anything along the lines of acknowledging Israel or Jew's right to exist? They have never tried to make America or the world believe they want a two-state solution. But the world continues to want a peace and resolution they themselves do not want.

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #936 on: October 26, 2023, 11:32:59 AM »
You clearly missed my point. They do not want a two state solution and have been VERY vocal about not wanting one. I'm not denying they want support, but when have they ever said anything along the lines of acknowledging Israel or Jew's right to exist? They have never tried to make America or the world believe they want a two-state solution. But the world continues to want a peace and resolution they themselves do not want.

I donít see these points as mutually exclusive.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #937 on: October 26, 2023, 11:56:31 AM »
I donít see these points as mutually exclusive.

I'm not understanding. Let's try again.

It doesnít matter that he qualifies it with saying Israel should destroy Hamas, heís still pandering to something they value.

Who is they? Hamas? Then no, he isn't.

Palestinians? Well, then again we are back to separating Palestinians from Hamas. Do you honestly want a US president to come out and say all Palestinians are terrorists?


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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #938 on: October 26, 2023, 12:32:35 PM »
I'm not understanding. Let's try again.

Who is they? Hamas? Then no, he isn't.

Palestinians? Well, then again we are back to separating Palestinians from Hamas. Do you honestly want a US president to come out and say all Palestinians are terrorists?

I donít want the US president to say anything. I think what he did say is damaging, because any statement that supports a Palestinian government (ďtwo state solutionĒ) is bad at this time, even if that statement is contrary to Hamas interests. Most ďeven half-brainedĒ people arenít capable of making the distinctions youíre making.

To say it differently, any formal Palestinian entity with which negotiations towards a two-state solution have, or would be had, either actively or at least passively supported terror/terrorist, and until the mindset changes for Palestinians and the leaders they elect, I donít think thereís anything to talk about.
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Offline Ver hut gazugt

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Re: Peace In The Middle East Master Thread
« Reply #939 on: October 26, 2023, 01:54:09 PM »
separate Hamas from Palestinians.
a distinction without a difference.