Is Covid Spiking in Boro Park?

[yaakov35]

That's debatable. Let's say 40% had it. What that means is introducing community spread is harder, but once it's there, it's not as big of a factor if 1 spreader goes to shul where half didn't get it.

I think your overblowing it. We didn't have new cases for months. Now that there's been a few isolated cases I think is 0 reason for concern and there is no reason to believe that they more then one of stories. Most schools in bp/willi/lkwd/monsey opened after pesach, life's been back to normal and now 4 months later there's a few cases.

[etech0]

Either way, having the Out of towners at the weddings and them passing it to locals, even if it is only those at the wedding, is not at all okay.

Maybe OOTers should get tested before coming to weddings. It won't catch everyone but hopefully a good percentage

[avromie7]

If someone is going to an indoor minyan without masks and distancing days after a wedding, this could get bad very fast.

This has been happening for months with no evidence of community spread caused by it. If something changes all bets are off, but for the time being it looks like we're ok.

Maybe OOTers should get tested before coming to weddings. It won't catch everyone but hopefully a good percentage

This is a good idea, I think if rapid testing was more easily available it would be easier to implement.

[etech0]

if rapid testing was more easily available it would be easier to implement.

+1

[shaulyaakov]

+1

There are already rules around this being ignored.

[avromie7]

+.75 There is still the potential that there are more out there than we know about and each cluster raises the potential for that exponentially.

It's possible, but there is no way it can spread silently for anywhere near as long as it did by March. While people aren't running to get tested every time they cough, the first thing people assume is COVID. Case in point, I got tested last week due to mild symptoms, it turned out to be strep.

Either way, having the Out of towners at the weddings and them passing it to locals, even if it is only those at the wedding, is not at all okay.

It's not ok, but it's a relatively minor issue for as long as it doesn't lead to community spread.

There are already rules around this being ignored.

For example? People are much more likely to ignore 2 week quarantine rules than get a rapid COVID test and be on your way in an hour.

[aygart]

It's possible, but there is no way it can spread silently for anywhere near as long as it did by March. While people aren't running to get tested every time they cough, the first thing people assume is COVID. Case in point, I got tested last week due to mild symptoms, it turned out to be strep. It's not ok, but it's a relatively minor issue for as long as it doesn't lead to community spread. For example? People are much more likely to ignore 2 week quarantine rules than get a rapid COVID test and be on your way in an hour.

You feel that is more that a +.75?

[shaulyaakov]

It's possible, but there is no way it can spread silently for anywhere near as long as it did by March. While people aren't running to get tested every time they cough, the first thing people assume is COVID. Case in point, I got tested last week due to mild symptoms, it turned out to be strep. It's not ok, but it's a relatively minor issue for as long as it doesn't lead to community spread. For example? People are much more likely to ignore 2 week quarantine rules than get a rapid COVID test and be on your way in an hour.

The 2 week quarantine is the law. Whether people don't think it's right, or whether people disobey since there are no consequences doesn't make it right. Baal Simchas shouldn't invite out of towners without it being contingent on quarantining. If rapid testing were a valid exemption to quarantine, it would be. It is not.

[aygart]

The 2 week quarantine is the law. Whether people don't think it's right, or whether people disobey since there are no consequences doesn't make it right. Baal Simchas shouldn't invite out of towners without it being contingent on quarantining. If rapid testing were a valid exemption to quarantine, it would be. It is not.

Maybe, but that argument is not going to get you far at this point.

[Lurker]

Maybe, but that argument is not going to get you far at this point.

In your opinion, is there any halachic basis to ignore the EO when coming in for a simcha?

[avromie7]

You feel that is more that a +.75?

I said what I said because I believe it's correct, I see your point of view and you're entitled to disagree.

The 2 week quarantine is the law. Whether people don't think it's right, or whether people disobey since there are no consequences doesn't make it right. Baal Simchas shouldn't invite out of towners without it being contingent on quarantining. If rapid testing were a valid exemption to quarantine, it would be. It is not.

We can either be technical or practical, the fact is people will do what they feel is right regardless of what the law says. Your average person isn't quarantining for 2 weeks because the law says so. If you want to detect most of the OOT guests with COVID, rapid tests when they arrive will do that.

[avromie7]

In your opinion, is there any halachic basis to ignore the EO when coming in for a simcha?

Does dina d'malchusa apply to political whims?

[Lurker]

Does dina d'malchusa apply to political whims?

Does it not? Since when are laws not the product of political whims?

[shaulyaakov]

Does dina d'malchusa apply to political whims?

Florida did it to NY. This isn't as political as you want it to be.

[avromie7]

Florida did it to NY. This isn't as political as you want it to be.

95% of COVID laws are political, if you want you can start getting technical about which ones are justified.

[Lurker]

95% of COVID laws are political, if you want you can start getting technical about which ones are justified.

FTFY, and right back at ya...

[KSMH]

95% of COVID laws are political, if you want you can start getting technical about which ones are justified.

Closer to 99%.

It's like the old lady I saw today on the highway, even though, herself in the car for a long period was faithfully wearing her mask [and had 2 hands on the steering wheel].

[hllulbh1]

I live in an OOT community and have a son getting married this week in NYC.

The idea of rabbonim forbidding OOT's from attending a NY wedding is laughable. First, the Tristate rabbonim (yeshivish circles) have moved on. The only potential incentive for them to prevent OOT from attending would be if they believed it was halachically warranted AND it was protecting the NY-area residents. Certainly once the initial wave passed, many Rabbonim did not believe it was halachically warranted to shut down or limit communal life.  Adding to that, Tristate-area frum circles have achieved herd immunity (whether real or imagined, practically it is the same). Secondly, the number of OOT that will actually attend is very limited even without the Rabbonim getting involved, at least in our case and all those I have spoken to that are in our shoes. A large percentage of friends and older family members from OOT are regrettably (not a Covid editorial, but personally) not going to be attending. The majority of the OOT attendees will be the friends of the chason and kallah and they have been to countless weddings in the last 3 months and have been in camps and yeshivos without recent infections, so are unlikely to be newly infected. Third, law or not, people are traveling to/from NY for business, pleasure, family, etc. from OOT for multiple days and the quarantine laws are just not relevant. It is hypocritical that the law becomes a factor for Tristate weddings and not for other 'illegal' travel.

The fact is, as stated by by several commentors, those returning from weddings that are newly infected have not lead to known community spread. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak, that OOT weddings are not leading to detectable community transmission. 

[aygart]

I live in an OOT community and have a son getting married this week in NYC.

The idea of rabbonim forbidding OOT's from attending a NY wedding is laughable. First, the Tristate rabbonim (yeshivish circles) have moved on. The only potential incentive for them to prevent OOT from attending would be if they believed it was halachically warranted AND it was protecting the NY-area residents. Certainly once the initial wave passed, many Rabbonim did not believe it was halachically warranted to shut down or limit communal life.  Adding to that, Tristate-area frum circles have achieved herd immunity (whether real or imagined, practically it is the same). Secondly, the number of OOT that will actually attend is very limited even without the Rabbonim getting involved, at least in our case and all those I have spoken to that are in our shoes. A large percentage of friends and older family members from OOT are regrettably (not a Covid editorial, but personally) not going to be attending. The majority of the OOT attendees will be the friends of the chason and kallah and they have been to countless weddings in the last 3 months and have been in camps and yeshivos without recent infections, so are unlikely to be newly infected. Third, law or not, people are traveling to/from NY for business, pleasure, family, etc. from OOT for multiple days and the quarantine laws are just not relevant. It is hypocritical that the law becomes a factor for Tristate weddings and not for other 'illegal' travel.

The fact is, as stated by by several commentors, those returning from weddings that are newly infected have not lead to known community spread. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak, that OOT weddings are not leading to detectable community transmission.

What about all of the people who caught at the wedding? Do they not count? Why does it need to be community spread to be problematic?

[ckmk47]

I live in an OOT community and have a son getting married this week in NYC.


The fact is, as stated by by several commentors, those returning from weddings that are newly infected have not lead to known community spread. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak, that OOT weddings are not leading to detectable community transmission.

It depends on which community people are coming from.  Some areas are 'hot spots', some have had it blow through.  The majority are seeing continued cases, so anyone who hasn't already had it is at risk of having just caught it and then bringing it with them to NY.


Mazal tov and much nachas from your son and the whole family.
But please, anyone who might have recently caught it, please take a covid test.