What is Tznius?

[yelped]

I therefore am not sure where minhag hamakom comes in..

The obvious question is what makes s/t minhag hamakom. But it would def. only be because of yidden.

Not sure why you both seem to be so sure that Minhag Hamakom doesn't go after non Jews.

[justaregularguy]

Not sure why you both seem to be so sure that Minhag Hamakom doesn't go after non Jews.

imagine if we dressed like the minhag of the world... . I dont mean to be graphic but theres literally clothes that are meant to be see through. can you imagine seeing jewish people wearing that one day shopping in your neighborhood. its just a slow slipperly slope.

[gozalim]

There is a reason for that. Except in regard to halachos of ervah (davening/brachos/learning) it's a midah (that doesn't mean you don't have to follow, just that it's not gonna be set rules).

I get where that impression comes from, but are there any published poskim (any orthodox sector) that state this outright?

and why is

Das Yehudis

not relevant/binding?

[kargagaliciana]

The Rambam rules that in Arab lands where it is the custom to wear a hijab, it is a lack of tznius to go without one. That would seem to support the view that minhag hamakom is based on the custom among non-jews. But that seems to only be that case when it's לחומרה.

[zh cohen]

Not sure why you both seem to be so sure that Minhag Hamakom doesn't go after non Jews.

With regards to clothing/fashion, going after non-jewish minhag hamakom is an additional issue of ובחוקותיהם לא תלכו

[flyingace]

Even important women wear sleeveless gowns and pants these days.

I believe it refers to Jewish women. Meaning it goes according to the highest levels of Jewish society rather than just anyone, as in the Rebbetzins, etc. Just off the top of my head....

[Dan]

I believe it refers to Jewish women. Meaning it goes according to the highest levels of Jewish society rather than just anyone, as in the Rebbetzins, etc. Just off the top of my head....

In that case, 99% of Jewish women don't keep tznius properly.

[flyingace]

In that case, 99% of Jewish women don't keep tznius properly.

It comes in when discussing standards for a particular community, not to decide basic halacha. For example, wearing stockings or socks... Minhag Hamakom for a community is based on what the Chashuv women do, not what "everyone" does. (As far as I understand; I do not claim to have studied this in depth.)

[avromie7]

I believe it refers to Jewish women. Meaning it goes according to the highest levels of Jewish society rather than just anyone, as in the Rebbetzins, etc. Just off the top of my head....

It comes in when discussing standards for a particular community, not to decide basic halacha. For example, wearing stockings or socks... Minhag Hamakom for a community is based on what the Chashuv women do, not what "everyone" does. (As far as I understand; I do not claim to have studied this in depth.)

And what does the rebbetzin base the standard on?

[tmendy226]

In that case, 99% of Jewish women don't keep tznius properly.

Not getting into the actual discussion but 99% of Jews don’t keep Kashrus and shabbos either (according to Halocho in שו״ע).

[yelped]

Not getting into the actual discussion but 99% of Jews don’t keep Kashrus and shabbos either (according to Halocho in שו״ע).

[flyingace]

  And what does the rebbetzin base the standard on?

What has been and is the accepted behavior in that town. What is ok in one place may not be ok in another place. Again, I do not claim to have studied this topic...Maybe someone else has a better understanding of this .

[avromie7]

Not getting into the actual discussion but 99% of Jews don’t keep Kashrus and shabbos either (according to Halocho in שו״ע).

Whoa, that's a serious accusation to make

[flyingace]

Maybe this will help:
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1248044/jewish/Who-Decides-What-Is-Modest.htm

[Yehudaa]

+1

[yesitsme]

whats a שניאל (the thing that is osur in satmer veiber shul)

[chinagel]

I get where that impression comes from, but are there any published poskim (any orthodox sector) that state this outright?

and why isnot relevant/binding?

IDK of sources, but it's not brought in SA except for ervah and the definition of tznius is a characteristic. (As opposed to Shabbos or Yibum which are not characteristics). Obviously my own understanding.

[chinagel]

whats a שניאל (the thing that is osur in satmer veiber shul)

Chenille snood

[justaregularguy]

Not getting into the actual discussion but 99% of Jews don’t keep Kashrus and shabbos either (according to Halocho in שו״ע).

No, do not drag in other topics within Judaism to compare and contrast or other communities-make your own thread if you want.

[yelped]

Maybe this will help:
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1248044/jewish/Who-Decides-What-Is-Modest.htm

Some very nice articles linked to on the bottom. I enjoyed the one with the Lubavitcher Rebbe's position re: Wigs.