Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab

[Yehuda57]

That was because they ran out of masks

And what's the excuse for slichos?

[lcm]

And what's the excuse for slichos?

Either the same, even though people could have brought from home, it's not the same when it's in front of you as you walk in.
Or, momentum was lost by the mincha/maariv.
But a lot of people are willing to comply if it's the norm, and even more people will wear if there is "peer pressure" to wear one, and there will always be the people that no matter what, they won't want to wear one

[Essen est zich]

From kratzs status seemed full but not packed as usual. Barely anyone wearing masks.

[Cholentfresser]

Nice crowd outside as well

[Euclid]

https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/09/covid-19-update-42.html

Over the past 24 hours we have become aware of multiple new cases of COVID here in Crown Heights, both in residents and those from out of town. This represents for the first time since Purim a very worrisome surge in new cases.  It is critical that those at risk for serious illness remain protected.

It is time to restart outdoor and porch minyanim, to the extent feasible. Particularly for those above age 60 or with underlying health issues (including obesity).

[Lurker]

https://covid19ch.blogspot.com/2020/09/covid-19-update-42.html

The response from leadership in CH has been very impressive: full-throated support for the doctors from the Rabbonim, and encouragement for the doctors to be brutally honest. The compliance from the general public has been less than awesome. Makes you wonder if members' theories about Lakewood's official stance are correct, in that they are tempering the guidance in accordance with what they feel the public will actually comply with.

[Yehuda57]

At the beginning the community response was amazing in every way.
It's very difficult to ask anyone to follow rules when there is so much hypocrisy vs senselessness. People end up throwing out ALL the rules. You can hardly blame them.

[Lurker]

At the beginning the community response was amazing in every way.
It's very difficult to ask anyone to follow rules when there is so much hypocrisy vs senselessness. People end up throwing out ALL the rules. You can hardly blame them.

There comes a certain point where common sense needs to be used, regardless of emotional reactions to the hypocrisy and senselessness of politicians. Right now we're talking about ignoring guidance from the doctors we actually do trust. That doesn't make much sense to me.

[ExGingi]

At the beginning the community response was amazing in every way.
It's very difficult to ask anyone to follow rules when there is so much hypocrisy vs senselessness. People end up throwing out ALL the rules. You can hardly blame them.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000

[gozalim]

There comes a certain point where common sense needs to be used, regardless of emotional reactions to the hypocrisy and senselessness of politicians. Right now we're talking about ignoring guidance from the doctors we actually do trust. That doesn't make much sense to me.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000

But more relevant; the only form of blameless that this virus recognizes is peaceful protests

[ExGingi]

There comes a certain point where common sense needs to be used, regardless of emotional reactions to the hypocrisy and senselessness of politicians. Right now we're talking about ignoring guidance from the doctors we actually do trust. That doesn't make much sense to me.

You're saying this is about "ignoring guidance from the doctors we actually do trust", but I would like to take issue with that.

Not that I don't trust Dr. Rosen, but unfortunately the way things are unfolding, between the Doctros, Rabbonim, Gabboim of 770, and any other self-proclaimed or otherwise assigned the title of "community leader" or askan, I see nothing but "a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic".

Think about that carefully. What changed? Why is there an "urgent" need to "enforce" masks in 770 (which the Gabboim have no intention of doing, other than paying increased lip-service as compared to what they previously did) as opposed to a week ago, or a month ago? Is it only because of an influx of a couple of hundred bochurim that all of the sudden we wake up an decide that it's right to have some protective measure? Did this come by surprise? Did no-one anticipate this?

Let me answer those simple questions for you. None of this is a surprise, everything was obvious and anticipated, but the MO is just one of reflexive reaction to anxiety over personal failure to be proactive and assume leadership. This is Crown Heights, and more specifically 770. Policies that might be difficult or impossible to implement on a wider scale could be implemented here, even if they aren't popular. I have long advocated for "immunity bracelets". While that might be problematic in other settings, what would stop 770 from issuing such (with proper simple fraud avoidance measures) and allowing only those with such a bracelet to be in 770 without a mask during Tishrei?

I haven't spoken to Dr. Rosen, but I did speak to one of the senior Hatzolah members a while ago. When I presented to him my arguments of how to get mask compliance in 770, the response I got was that the current (as of several weeks ago) belief is that it is not required in Crown Heights with its assumed herd immunity.

Personally, I will try to AVOID wearing a mask whenever and wherever I can, as I see no benefit to it. I don't fear being infected, and I don't believe I will infect others, as I have been sick with COVID-19 months ago and tested positive for antibodies. My attitude towards mask wearing would be different if I saw any serious and HONEST guidance and rules. But as long as it is all evidently reflexive reaction to anxiety over personal failure to be proactive and assume leadership and panic over clear PUBLIC evidence of such, I will resort to doing what I believe is responsible on my behalf, without letting the panic of others (which translates mostly into symbolic rather than substantive actions) affect my behavior.

[ExGingi]

Just to put things into perspective, the following is from just one company I sell, and an overwhelming majority of those were for bochurim coming to Crown Heights (or the Ohel).

[Lurker]

I'm not quoting the megillah above, because the entire premise is faulty. If you read the guidance from The Gedaliah Society dating backs weeks, if not even months, there has been a clear push for widespread mask usage. They've had the full support of the Rabbonim throughout. This is not a new policy reacting to some new bochurim showing up. This is a stronger reaction to many new cases within the community after the preventive policies were ignored.

And calling the gabboim of 770 "leaders" is beyond laughable.

[gozalim]

To reference a different discussion , I believe the rov has now (last week?) gone on record as to his absence

[gozalim]

@ExGingi can we talk less about who did what to who and more about how to prevent confirmed cases (how many now? 10? 50?) from spreading with the call of the shofar across the shul, and from there across the neighborhood?

[Yehuda57]

Efforts have been made for months to stop guests from coming for tishrei. Certain individuals refuse to do follow the Rabbonim's guidance.

[neveryou]

Efforts have been made for months to stop guests from coming for tishrei. Certain individuals refuse to do follow the Rabbonim's guidance.

770 was fine till guests started coming in from (i.e. dibs)

770 should only allow people from the shchuna in, have someone standing at the door not allowing guests in

[Yehuda57]

770 was fine till guests started coming in from (i.e. dibs)

770 should only allow people from the shchuna in, have someone standing at the door not allowing guests in

Firstly, stop denigrating thousands of Jews.

Secondly, your idea is brilliant. Have a guy at the door (even 10) stopping thousands of Israelis from entering. Genius. That would totally work.

[Yehuda57]

Masks aren't enough to stop the spread with the amount of people that were crammed into 770 last night, singing with full voice.

[gozalim]

Masks aren't enough to stop the spread with the amount of people that were crammed into 770 last night, singing with full voice.

is anything being done to make the service lane viable for Rosh Hashanah? (shabbos)?