Author Topic: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab  (Read 7545 times)

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 8604
  • Total likes: 2149
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2020, 11:52:24 AM »
There comes a certain point where common sense needs to be used, regardless of emotional reactions to the hypocrisy and senselessness of politicians. Right now we're talking about ignoring guidance from the doctors we actually do trust. That doesn't make much sense to me.


You're saying this is about "ignoring guidance from the doctors we actually do trust", but I would like to take issue with that.

Not that I don't trust Dr. Rosen, but unfortunately the way things are unfolding, between the Doctros, Rabbonim, Gabboim of 770, and any other self-proclaimed or otherwise assigned the title of "community leader" or askan, I see nothing but "a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic".

Think about that carefully. What changed? Why is there an "urgent" need to "enforce" masks in 770 (which the Gabboim have no intention of doing, other than paying increased lip-service as compared to what they previously did) as opposed to a week ago, or a month ago? Is it only because of an influx of a couple of hundred bochurim that all of the sudden we wake up an decide that it's right to have some protective measure? Did this come by surprise? Did no-one anticipate this?

Let me answer those simple questions for you. None of this is a surprise, everything was obvious and anticipated, but the MO is just one of reflexive reaction to anxiety over personal failure to be proactive and assume leadership. This is Crown Heights, and more specifically 770. Policies that might be difficult or impossible to implement on a wider scale could be implemented here, even if they aren't popular. I have long advocated for "immunity bracelets". While that might be problematic in other settings, what would stop 770 from issuing such (with proper simple fraud avoidance measures) and allowing only those with such a bracelet to be in 770 without a mask during Tishrei?

I haven't spoken to Dr. Rosen, but I did speak to one of the senior Hatzolah members a while ago. When I presented to him my arguments of how to get mask compliance in 770, the response I got was that the current (as of several weeks ago) belief is that it is not required in Crown Heights with its assumed herd immunity.

Personally, I will try to AVOID wearing a mask whenever and wherever I can, as I see no benefit to it. I don't fear being infected, and I don't believe I will infect others, as I have been sick with COVID-19 months ago and tested positive for antibodies. My attitude towards mask wearing would be different if I saw any serious and HONEST guidance and rules. But as long as it is all evidently reflexive reaction to anxiety over personal failure to be proactive and assume leadership and panic over clear PUBLIC evidence of such, I will resort to doing what I believe is responsible on my behalf, without letting the panic of others (which translates mostly into symbolic rather than substantive actions) affect my behavior.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 11:57:13 AM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 8604
  • Total likes: 2149
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2020, 12:02:16 PM »
Just to put things into perspective, the following is from just one company I sell, and an overwhelming majority of those were for bochurim coming to Crown Heights (or the Ohel).

I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 2007
  • Total likes: 1251
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2020, 12:11:29 PM »
I'm not quoting the megillah above, because the entire premise is faulty. If you read the guidance from The Gedaliah Society dating backs weeks, if not even months, there has been a clear push for widespread mask usage. They've had the full support of the Rabbonim throughout. This is not a new policy reacting to some new bochurim showing up. This is a stronger reaction to many new cases within the community after the preventive policies were ignored.

And calling the gabboim of 770 "leaders" is beyond laughable.
Please wear a mask.

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 3376
  • Total likes: 153
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2020, 12:14:12 PM »
To reference a different discussion , I believe the rov has now (last week?) gone on record as to his absence

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 3376
  • Total likes: 153
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2020, 12:17:26 PM »
@ExGingi can we talk less about who did what to who and more about how to prevent confirmed cases (how many now? 10? 50?) from spreading with the call of the shofar across the shul, and from there across the neighborhood?

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 1896
  • Total likes: 2638
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2020, 12:21:43 PM »
Efforts have been made for months to stop guests from coming for tishrei. Certain individuals refuse to do follow the Rabbonim's guidance.
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline neveryou

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2019
  • Posts: 192
  • Total likes: 29
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: US
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2020, 12:43:49 PM »
Efforts have been made for months to stop guests from coming for tishrei. Certain individuals refuse to do follow the Rabbonim's guidance.
770 was fine till guests started coming in from (i.e. dibs)

770 should only allow people from the shchuna in, have someone standing at the door not allowing guests in

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 1896
  • Total likes: 2638
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2020, 12:48:25 PM »
770 was fine till guests started coming in from (i.e. dibs)

770 should only allow people from the shchuna in, have someone standing at the door not allowing guests in

Firstly, stop denigrating thousands of Jews.

Secondly, your idea is brilliant. Have a guy at the door (even 10) stopping thousands of Israelis from entering. Genius. That would totally work.

Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 1896
  • Total likes: 2638
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2020, 12:49:51 PM »
Masks aren't enough to stop the spread with the amount of people that were crammed into 770 last night, singing with full voice.
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 3376
  • Total likes: 153
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2020, 12:53:34 PM »
Masks aren't enough to stop the spread with the amount of people that were crammed into 770 last night, singing with full voice.
is anything being done to make the service lane viable for Rosh Hashanah? (shabbos)?

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 8604
  • Total likes: 2149
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2020, 01:00:26 PM »
Masks aren't enough to stop the spread with the amount of people that were crammed into 770 last night, singing with full voice.

Hence my assertion that this is all about "symbolic rather than substantive actions".
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 1896
  • Total likes: 2638
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2020, 01:02:10 PM »
is anything being done to make the service lane viable for Rosh Hashanah? (shabbos)?

I don't know.
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 8604
  • Total likes: 2149
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2020, 01:04:14 PM »
Secondly, your idea is brilliant. Have a guy at the door (even 10) stopping thousands of Israelis from entering. Genius. That would totally work.

The reason that wouldn't work isn't due to the numbers.

It's like the gabboim of 770 asking people to maintain order or keep the place clean. It's laughable since they are primary enablers of chaos in 770.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 1896
  • Total likes: 2638
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2020, 01:04:53 PM »
Hence my assertion that this is all about "symbolic rather than substantive actions".

Your assertion was that no planning had been done. This is false. Many many efforts were made to prevail on people who could stop guests from coming. They were futile.
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 8604
  • Total likes: 2149
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 12
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2020, 01:07:05 PM »
Your assertion was that no planning had been done. This is false. Many many efforts were made to prevail on people who could stop guests from coming. They were futile.

יגעתי ולא מצאתי - אל תאמין
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan