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Author Topic: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab  (Read 87308 times)

Offline yaakov35

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #160 on: September 15, 2020, 03:34:59 PM »
Stam,

The rov said to listen to the doctors, besides dr rosen and the gedalia society there are other doctors in ch and at least one of them has said that makes don't help
If I don't wear a mask I'm still following the rov bc I'm listening to a dr

What makes dr rosen and the gedalia society expert dr in corona virus? That's not there field
Dr rosen is a pediatrician and the person who is in charge of the gedalia society I believe is either a radiologist or anesthesiologist
Just like in other fields, for example law I don't go to a divorce lawyer for bankruptcy, so too by Corona it should work like that
Same as ditchek in Flatbush, generally the ones who make the most noise are not the most knowledgeable in that particular area.


Offline gozalim

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #161 on: September 15, 2020, 03:36:28 PM »
Stam interesting, the rovs father in law is walking around in 770 with no mask
Nunu
dunno that he takes orders from anyone... or that he can be kept from 770 for any length of time (mor than @ExGingi if you can imagine that)...
Stam,

The rov said to listen to the doctors, besides dr rosen and the gedalia society there are other doctors in ch and at least one of them has said that makes don't help
If I don't wear a mask I'm still following the rov bc I'm listening to a dr

What makes dr rosen and the gedalia society expert dr in corona virus? That's not there field
Dr rosen is a pediatrician and the person who is in charge of the gedalia society I believe is either a radiologist or anesthesiologist
Just like in other fields, for example law I don't go to a divorce lawyer for bankruptcy, so too by Corona it should work like that
אה"נ
as others here have said 'follow your rov', similarly here, follow your own רופא ידיד.
the benefit that he/they have is possibly:
*larger number of patients so bigger data pool
*the benefit of multiple people/professionals able to pool their energy and expertise on the topic
*they seem to be collecting data in coordination with hatzalah as well as the other local practices

and possibly העיקר
they're actually making statements on record.giving guidance beyond their own patients. so for public 'leadership' it's kinda the only voice there is

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #162 on: September 15, 2020, 04:00:30 PM »
Stam,

The rov said to listen to the doctors, besides dr rosen and the gedalia society there are other doctors in ch and at least one of them has said that makes don't help
If I don't wear a mask I'm still following the rov bc I'm listening to a dr

What makes dr rosen and the gedalia society expert dr in corona virus? That's not there field
Dr rosen is a pediatrician and the person who is in charge of the gedalia society I believe is either a radiologist or anesthesiologist
Just like in other fields, for example law I don't go to a divorce lawyer for bankruptcy, so too by Corona it should work like that

Dr Rosen is not only a pediatrician.
The Gedalia Society is made up of dozens of medical professionals in many specialties.
The person who you are referring to is a radiologist, and he'll be the first to tell you you shouldn't listen to rules if he was the one to make them. But he's not making trash up. He's given of his life for months now for nothing. He's not a community doctor. He's not even remotely responsible to do any of this. No other community in the world had what we had with the Gedalia Society. There's no exaggerating what an incredible impact he has made on the lives of thousands, and who is to know how many lives have been saved thanks to him and his co-society volunteers.

Offline koplonko

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #163 on: September 15, 2020, 08:02:36 PM »
Stam,

The rov said to listen to the doctors, besides dr rosen and the gedalia society there are other doctors in ch and at least one of them has said that makes don't help
If I don't wear a mask I'm still following the rov bc I'm listening to a dr

What makes dr rosen and the gedalia society expert dr in corona virus? That's not there field
Dr rosen is a pediatrician and the person who is in charge of the gedalia society I believe is either a radiologist or anesthesiologist
Just like in other fields, for example law I don't go to a divorce lawyer for bankruptcy, so too by Corona it should work like that

Offline koplonko

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #164 on: September 15, 2020, 08:04:13 PM »
https://anash.org/770-to-remain-open-for-rosh-hashana/

Interesting twist: the Rov would like 770 to be closed, but is deferring to the doctors who believe it is safer to keep it open.
what happened to: "i'm not a doctor, listen to what they say"? how does he even have an opinion that 770 should be closed?
Bichlal, the only thing that's clear, is that he's not making himself clear.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #165 on: September 15, 2020, 08:06:03 PM »
what happened to: "i'm not a doctor, listen to what they say"? how does he even have an opinion that 770 should be closed?

Read why the doctors want to keep it open...
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Offline chevron

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #166 on: September 15, 2020, 08:07:59 PM »
Stam,

The rov said to listen to the doctors, besides dr rosen and the gedalia society there are other doctors in ch and at least one of them has said that makes don't help
If I don't wear a mask I'm still following the rov bc I'm listening to a dr

What makes dr rosen and the gedalia society expert dr in corona virus? That's not there field
Dr rosen is a pediatrician and the person who is in charge of the gedalia society I believe is either a radiologist or anesthesiologist
Just like in other fields, for example law I don't go to a divorce lawyer for bankruptcy, so too by Corona it should work like that

Fwiw, a very close friend of mine from the wine world is currently 72, He retired his chief anesthesiologist of his Pittsburgh children's hospital, after an over 40 year distinguished career.

He's also a scientist and world expert on intubation and various drugs, specializing in rare cases where people are severely allergic to anesthesia.

Saying that an anesthesiologist is not an expert, is like saying, a divorce lawyer has no qualifications as a mediator.

Online Euclid

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Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #167 on: September 15, 2020, 08:20:17 PM »
The advantage any doctor has over your average layman is their ability to read and truly understand (with all the nuances) scientific studies and papers.

Offline neveryou

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #168 on: September 15, 2020, 09:17:07 PM »
The advantage any doctor has over your average layman is their ability to read and truly understand (with all the nuances) scientific studies and papers.
What about reading the statistics and data?

Online aygart

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #169 on: September 15, 2020, 09:22:26 PM »
What about reading the statistics and data?
And understanding them? Absolutely!
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #170 on: September 15, 2020, 09:40:32 PM »
what happened to: "i'm not a doctor, listen to what they say"? how does he even have an opinion that 770 should be closed?
Bichlal, the only thing that's clear, is that he's not making himself clear.

He has only been unclear if you haven't agreed with him

Offline neveryou

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #171 on: September 15, 2020, 09:41:29 PM »
And understanding them? Absolutely!
Ok

Offline koplonko

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #172 on: September 15, 2020, 09:51:58 PM »
Read why the doctors want to keep it open...
My question is how can he be more "worried" than the doctors themselves? It goes against what he's been saying till now. If the deem it safe, why does he personally think it should be closed?

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #173 on: September 15, 2020, 09:53:24 PM »
My question is how can he be more "worried" than the doctors themselves? It goes against what he's been saying till now. If the deem it safe, why does he personally think it should be closed?

They don't deem it safe.

Offline koplonko

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #174 on: September 15, 2020, 09:54:30 PM »
He has only been unclear if you haven't agreed with him
As a mispalel of 770 that does not readily have another shul to daven in, and davening in 770 is very important to me, I ask: should I specifically find somewhere else to daven this year? Can he answer that with a Yes/No?

Offline koplonko

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #175 on: September 15, 2020, 09:55:39 PM »
They don't deem it safe.
They want it open, or at least said it could stay open. He says it really can't but he defers to them.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #176 on: September 15, 2020, 09:56:16 PM »
My question is how can he be more "worried" than the doctors themselves? It goes against what he's been saying till now. If the deem it safe, why does he personally think it should be closed?

From a location-specific safety point of view, they are in agreement that 770 should be closed. However, the doctors are looking at the bigger picture in CH, and are recommending keeping it open with strict rules, ONLY because pushing all those hundreds of people into other shuls or places around the neighborhood does the general community more harm than good. That isn't to say they think 770 is safe. They just think the community is safer this way.
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Offline lcm

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #177 on: September 15, 2020, 09:57:17 PM »
My question is how can he be more "worried" than the doctors themselves? It goes against what he's been saying till now. If the deem it safe, why does he personally think it should be closed?
There is having kabolas ol to the psak, which is kabolas ol to the doctors, then there are personal opinions

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #178 on: September 15, 2020, 09:59:18 PM »
As a mispalel of 770 that does not readily have another shul to daven in, and davening in 770 is very important to me, I ask: should I specifically find somewhere else to daven this year? Can he answer that with a Yes/No?

Did you ask him?

A relative of mine who davens in 770 every single day, has paid for seats for him tov, farbrengs with Rabbi Braun in 770 very often, did not daven there shabbos or slichos, and is going to a backyard minyan for R"H.

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Re: Crown Heights as a COVID-19 lab
« Reply #179 on: September 15, 2020, 10:03:01 PM »
As a mispalel of 770 that does not readily have another shul to daven in, and davening in 770 is very important to me, I ask: should I specifically find somewhere else to daven this year? Can he answer that with a Yes/No?

Ask both Rabbi Braun and Dr. Rosen, with the specifics of your situation. I'd be surprised if they don't both give you the same answer.
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