Author Topic: A face mask that cancelled a flight.  (Read 2911 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2020, 04:09:28 PM »
There are rarely broad governmental policies that result in zero loss of life, no matter how emotional an argument one can make in the extreme examples that end up that way.

Seatbelt mandates cause a non-zero amount of deaths each year. That in no way minimizes the extraordinary amount of lives they save.

True, an airline policy should ideally cause no deaths.Youíre probably referring to a quote of mine but thatís not what I said at all. In trying to illustrate why one *may* be upset at others for not wearing masks and thus endangering them, despite this being a free country, I used the obviously extreme analogy of someone firing an AK-47 and daring others to cross it. Naturally, all agree that thatís inherently wrong. Using the same principle of limiting oneís actions that potentially endanger others in a less extreme case (that of masks) one can understand how one *may* be upset.

 Ben Shapiro often uses another analogy- your right to swing your fist ends at my face.I would be extremely upset. Itís much easier to be angry when one sees an action result in a direct consequence as opposed to inaction resulting in a slow and vague consequence, even if the slow and vague consequences have far more severe ramifications.

I assume you understand there have been no babies killed due to this policy, nor are there likely to ever be, correct? Yet you claimed

You are full of straw man arguments. Make the mask policy sensible and it won't cause issues. Make it non-sensical it will be treated as such.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline etech0

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2020, 04:12:49 PM »
I'm working under the assumption that under 24 Months they are exempt from wearing a mask, and therefore this is a travesty.
Wasn't it considered dangerous for children under 2?
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline S209

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2020, 04:38:36 PM »
You are full of straw man arguments. Make the mask policy sensible and it won't cause issues. Make it non-sensical it will be treated as such.
Please point to an example, I donít think I am.

I also donít think itís true that any ďsensibleĒ policy wonít have some drawbacks.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 04:42:26 PM by S209 »

Offline S209

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2020, 04:43:28 PM »
I'm working under the assumption that under 24 Months they are exempt from wearing a mask, and therefore this is a travesty.
If that is the case then itís more a question of what was going on in the first place

Offline etech0

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2020, 05:06:17 PM »
If that is the case then itís more a question of what was going on in the first place
+1
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2020, 05:47:09 PM »

If that is the case then itís more a question of what was going on in the first place
Absolute trip power. Horrifying.

Offline moish

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2020, 04:34:40 PM »
It was an issue with a 3 year old
According to WestJet, the only issue was with the 3 year old. So far it's a he said she said situation. But I do find it strange that according to the passenger, the 3 year old was eating a snack, was told that there was a zero tolerance policy and the door couldnt close until the kid had a mask on, and the passenger still asked whether the kid could finish the snack. Either way, the facts need to come out.

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2020, 08:44:30 PM »
According to WestJet, the only issue was with the 3 year old. So far it's a he said she said situation. But I do find it strange that according to the passenger, the 3 year old was eating a snack, was told that there was a zero tolerance policy and the door couldnt close until the kid had a mask on, and the passenger still asked whether the kid could finish the snack. Either way, the facts need to come out.
Guests can eat or drink while on board as long as they replace their mask once finished.

 

Offline avromie7

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2020, 09:49:41 PM »
I donít know the answer, nor do I necessarily agree with their policy. I just posed what I thought was a legitimate question and have heard nothing but ad hominem attacks with nothing addressing the logical validity therein.

Some possible answers?

1- Younger children pose less risk of spreading COVID, as well as less risk of becoming severely ill (thus less risk of a lawsuit)
2- There needs to be some cut off, and an actuarial decision in the company arrived at the conclusion that 24 months makes the most economic sense
The CDC says it's dangerous for children under 2 to wear a mask because they may not be able to remove it if they have trouble breathing
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline aygart

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2020, 10:05:02 PM »
The CDC says it's dangerous for children under 2 to wear a mask because they may not be able to remove it if they have trouble breathing
But masks don't cause a problem breathing......
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yuneeq

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2020, 12:08:35 AM »
The CDC says it's dangerous for children under 2 to wear a mask because they may not be able to remove it if they have trouble breathing

Fake news
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html
"If you fall, I will be there." -Floor

Offline avromie7

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2020, 02:46:19 AM »
Fake news
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html
Which part?

This is from the page you linked "Masks should NOT be worn by children under the age of 2 or anyone who has trouble breathing, is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance."
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2020, 08:29:23 AM »
Which part?

This part

The CDC says it's dangerous for children under 2 to wear a mask because they may not be able to remove it if they have trouble breathing

Is not at all the same as:

Quote
ĒMasks should NOT be worn by children under the age of 2 or anyone who has trouble breathing, is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance."

And

Quote
Masks should not be worn by:

-Children younger than 2 years old
-Anyone who has trouble breathing
-Anyone who is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance
"If you fall, I will be there." -Floor

Offline avromie7

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2020, 09:47:30 AM »
This part

Is not at all the same as:

And
You decided to attack me instead of doing the tiniest bit of research. I just googled "is it dangerous for an infant to wear a mask" and this is the first thing that showed up.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html
"Masks should NOT be put on babies or children younger than 2 because of the danger of suffocation.  Children younger than 2 years of age are listed as an exception as well as anyone who has trouble breathing or is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance."
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 09:52:22 AM by avromie7 »
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2020, 09:54:05 AM »
You decided to attack me instead of doing the tiniest bit of research. I just googled "is it dangerous for an infant to wear a mask" and this is the first thing that showed up.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html
"Masks should NOT be put on babies or children younger than 2 because of the danger of suffocation.  Children younger than 2 years of age are listed as an exception as well as anyone who has trouble breathing or is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance."

Didnít attack you, but what you posted is not what the CDC said, even if you repeat it. Iím actually pretty familiar with the CDC guidance which is why I piped up. But you are closer to the CDC than S209.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 10:02:56 AM by yuneeq »
"If you fall, I will be there." -Floor

Offline yuneeq

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2020, 09:57:55 AM »
But masks don't cause a problem breathing......

Infants have smaller airways so they are more likely to have an issue with breathing. Hard to infer anything about adults as you imply.
"If you fall, I will be there." -Floor

Offline avromie7

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2020, 10:07:09 AM »
Didnít attack you, but what you posted is not what the CDC said, even if you repeat it.
You didn't even have the decency to explain what you believe is false.

Please explain the difference between "it's dangerous for children under 2 to wear a mask because they may not be able to remove it if they have trouble breathing" and "Masks should NOT be put on babies or children younger than 2 because of the danger of suffocation.  Children younger than 2 years of age are listed as an exception as well as anyone who ... [is] otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance."
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2020, 10:08:29 AM »
Wasn't it considered dangerous for children under 2?
The CDC says it's dangerous for children under 2 to wear a mask because they may not be able to remove it if they have trouble breathing
Fake news
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html
I just googled "is it dangerous for an infant to wear a mask" and this is the first thing that showed up.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html
"Masks should NOT be put on babies or children younger than 2 because of the danger of suffocation. Children younger than 2 years of age are listed as an exception as well as anyone who has trouble breathing or is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance."
but what you posted is not what the CDC said, even if you repeat it. Iím actually pretty familiar with the CDC guidance which is why I piped up.
Why is it so complicated to FTT?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 10:11:44 AM by Kobe bryent »

Offline avromie7

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2020, 10:10:30 AM »
Infants have smaller airways so they are more likely to have an issue with breathing. Hard to infer anything about adults as you imply.
You decided to attack me instead of doing the tiniest bit of research. I just googled "is it dangerous for an infant to wear a mask" and this is the first thing that showed up.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html
"Masks should NOT be put on babies or children younger than 2 because of the danger of suffocation.  Children younger than 2 years of age are listed as an exception as well as anyone who has trouble breathing or is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance."
This clearly includes adults as well.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: A face mask that cancelled a flight.
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2020, 10:12:47 AM »
You didn't even have the decency to explain what you believe is false.

Please explain the difference between "it's dangerous for children under 2 to wear a mask because they may not be able to remove it if they have trouble breathing" and "Masks should NOT be put on babies or children younger than 2 because of the danger of suffocation.  Children younger than 2 years of age are listed as an exception as well as anyone who ... [is] otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance."

It was late and I couldíve/shouldíve been less brief.

The difference is that the CDC statement says children under 2 ďand/orĒ and the rest of the statement is not specifically referring to children under 2. The section underneath breaks it down clearly

Masks should not be worn by:

-Children younger than 2 years old
-Anyone who has trouble breathing
-Anyone who is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance
"If you fall, I will be there." -Floor