Author Topic: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections  (Read 32769 times)

Online aygart

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #280 on: September 29, 2020, 03:18:02 PM »
From Wikipedia:

 January 1973, the Supreme Court issued a 7–2 decision ruling that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides a "right to privacy" that protects a pregnant woman's right to choose whether or not to have an abortion. But it also ruled that this right is not absolute, and must be balanced against the government's interests in protecting women's health and protecting prenatal life.

My point is that there are 2 options to strike down Roe:

1. Abortion = murder, therfore, the  interest in protecting prenatel life is higher than was originally ruled (a court may be tempted to say this as they can likely point to medical advances since 1973 as basis for the change).

2. The entire premise of the right to privacy is manufactured.

You could imagine there are a few nafka Minas to that.

So let me get this straight, you are quoting from RVW to show that RVW is in a basic reading of the constitution? And then you are calling other things laughable?

There can be a right to privacy without it meaning that the ability to regulate a doctor's office with a big huge sign offering abortions is included. Including this right to privacy under due process is very difficult to see as being inherently there. There can still be a right to privacy under other clauses of the constitution, but that would not include the favored outcome of protecting abortion.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online Kobe Bryant

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #281 on: September 29, 2020, 03:40:15 PM »

Offline gubevo18

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #282 on: September 29, 2020, 05:23:55 PM »
So let me get this straight, you are quoting from RVW to show that RVW is in a basic reading of the constitution? And then you are calling other things laughable?

There can be a right to privacy without it meaning that the ability to regulate a doctor's office with a big huge sign offering abortions is included. Including this right to privacy under due process is very difficult to see as being inherently there. There can still be a right to privacy under other clauses of the constitution, but that would not include the favored outcome of protecting abortion.
At this point, I'm beginning to not take @shaulyaakov seriously anymore.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #283 on: September 29, 2020, 05:27:25 PM »
It seems like everyone is happy to say anything that fits within their worldview falls under judicial review, and anything that falls outside it is legistlating from the bench.

Online aygart

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #284 on: September 29, 2020, 05:42:17 PM »
It seems like everyone is happy to say anything that fits within their worldview falls under judicial review, and anything that falls outside it is legistlating from the bench.
LOL you haven't been listening to anything that anyone said nor addressed their main points. Your only reply to anything about RVW was to quote from RVW as a source.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #285 on: September 29, 2020, 05:58:29 PM »
LOL you haven't been listening to anything that anyone said nor addressed their main points. Your only reply to anything about RVW was to quote from RVW as a source.
I was explaining how RVW exists within its framework. Saying "it's framework is wrong" doesn't mean anything until the Supreme Court overturns it.

I also explained how the court might go about overturning it in a narrow way (by saying that the science has changed and the benefits to saving prenatal life is greater now). In all likelihood, this is the way that the court will go. It will leave in place the legal theory that led to Roe, but curtail it in practice (ie by moving the cutoff date to 40 days, for example, or allowing a heartbeat law, with still technically keeping abortion as a right nationally).

Further, I commented that the impetus to say that abortion = murder is itself somewhat of a reach.

Offline gubevo18

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #286 on: September 29, 2020, 06:02:13 PM »
It seems like everyone is happy to say anything that fits within their worldview falls under judicial review, and anything that falls outside it is legistlating from the bench.
LOLOLOL

Still waiting for a response on my point that Liberals are way more likely to legislate from the bench and how liberals are okay with that. (a somewhat defensible position, albeit one I disagree with).

And you haven't offered any reasonable response to anything anyone else has sent your way.

Trust me, I'm surrounded by liberals and many are reasonable and make solid arguments. I can't count you among them though.

Offline gubevo18

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #287 on: September 29, 2020, 06:03:44 PM »
I was explaining how RVW exists within its framework. Saying "it's framework is wrong" doesn't mean anything until the Supreme Court overturns it.

I also explained how the court might go about overturning it in a narrow way (by saying that the science has changed and the benefits to saving prenatal life is greater now). In all likelihood, this is the way that the court will go. It will leave in place the legal theory that led to Roe, but curtail it in practice (ie by moving the cutoff date to 40 days, for example, or allowing a heartbeat law, with still technically keeping abortion as a right nationally).

Further, I commented that the impetus to say that abortion = murder is itself somewhat of a reach.
RVW exists within RVW. Yes, I sure hope so. I exist within my framework too. Where does that take me?

Okay, okay, dumb analogy. But you get my point. Everything exists within it's own framework.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #288 on: September 29, 2020, 06:08:13 PM »
LOLOLOL

Still waiting for a response on my point that Liberals are way more likely to legislate from the bench and how liberals are okay with that. (a somewhat defensible position, albeit one I disagree with).

And you haven't offered any reasonable response to anything anyone else has sent your way.

Trust me, I'm surrounded by liberals and many are reasonable and make solid arguments. I can't count you among them though.
Liberals are more likely to legislate from the bench, I've never disputed that. To say that it's exclusively one side is akin to saying that only things you disagree with are. One could go though history and raise questions on both sides.

As to why liberals feel justified in doing so - they would tell you that the constitution isn't a perfect document. It provides the structure and framework for the courts to follow, but it also leaves much open to the interpretation. They would argue original construction makes no sense, as the country has changed faster than the amendment process can keep up. They would also use an overly expansive interpretation of the 14th amendment to include equal protection for things that are not explicitly mentioned. This point shares so bipartisan support - nowhere does the constitution say that a corporation is entitled to equal protection, yet the 14th amendment grants rights to corporations as well.

Online aygart

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #289 on: September 29, 2020, 07:27:04 PM »
Liberals are more likely to legislate from the bench, I've never disputed that. To say that it's exclusively one side is akin to saying that only things you disagree with are. One could go though history and raise questions on both sides.

As to why liberals feel justified in doing so - they would tell you that the constitution isn't a perfect document. It provides the structure and framework for the courts to follow, but it also leaves much open to the interpretation. They would argue original construction makes no sense, as the country has changed faster than the amendment process can keep up. They would also use an overly expansive interpretation of the 14th amendment to include equal protection for things that are not explicitly mentioned. This point shares so bipartisan support - nowhere does the constitution say that a corporation is entitled to equal protection, yet the 14th amendment grants rights to corporations as well.
I don't think anyone argued that it exclusive to the liberals.

The rationale behind corporations having rights is that they are not stand-alone sentient beings but rather a tool of their owners just like a publisher is a tool of the journalist and a campaign is a tool of the candidates.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online aygart

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #290 on: September 29, 2020, 07:28:26 PM »
I was explaining how RVW exists within its framework. Saying "it's framework is wrong" doesn't mean anything until the Supreme Court overturns it.

I also explained how the court might go about overturning it in a narrow way (by saying that the science has changed and the benefits to saving prenatal life is greater now). In all likelihood, this is the way that the court will go. It will leave in place the legal theory that led to Roe, but curtail it in practice (ie by moving the cutoff date to 40 days, for example, or allowing a heartbeat law, with still technically keeping abortion as a right nationally).

Further, I commented that the impetus to say that abortion = murder is itself somewhat of a reach.

I didn't argue that it is wrong but rather that am defending the opinion that it was legislating from the bench and not directly from the constitution. At this point it seems that you agree with that.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online Kobe Bryant

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #291 on: October 02, 2020, 12:16:44 PM »
Lindsey Graham says this morning that confirmation hearings for Amy Coney Barrett are on track. He said they are still going to start Oct. 12. He said he spoke this morning to Trump who was in good spirits and Trump asked about the hearings.

Online Kobe Bryant

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #292 on: October 12, 2020, 01:20:06 AM »



Offline Afrages6

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #293 on: October 13, 2020, 05:35:15 PM »
Cory Booker faux emotion is so ridiculous.

Online Sammy82

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #294 on: October 13, 2020, 05:35:55 PM »
Cory Booker faux emotion is so ridiculous.
link?

Offline Afrages6

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #295 on: October 13, 2020, 05:38:32 PM »

Online Kobe Bryant

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #296 on: October 13, 2020, 05:57:01 PM »
Cory "Spartacus" Booker faux emotion is so ridiculous.
FTFY

Offline shapsam

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« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 09:27:16 PM by shapsam »

Offline TimT

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Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #298 on: October 13, 2020, 10:04:03 PM »
Cory Booker faux emotion is so ridiculous.
Was it as good as this gem ?

Offline Lurker

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  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: RBG DDF shortlist and how it will shape the Elections
« Reply #299 on: October 13, 2020, 10:36:49 PM »
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.