Used Car Research

[EliJelly]

Once on the subject- is there any reason to avoid dealers off the internet? I see comparable vans on cars.com craigslist etc priced significantly better ($1500-2000) than what I'm being quoted by the frum dealer, and happens to be much nicer colors than what he's offering me. Yes, color is not my top criteria but if I'm spending some 20k, may as well like the color?? I don't know anything about these dealers but if the Carfax is good, is there any reason to not buy from them?? I mean after all, where is the frum dealer buying it from already?? The auction 

Afaik, not from personal experience, used car dealers are professional ripoffs and you won't ever get the price you see online. Just take a few minutes and skim through some reviews.

[Dovdovmoneytree]

Afaik, not from personal experience, used car dealers are professional ripoffs and you won't ever get the price you see online. Just take a few minutes and skim through some reviews.

That is what this frum dealer has told me. He said most times their quote is based on doing the financing thru their preferred source- and they hike the rate by 2%. He claims if you don't use their finance source it will cost several thousand more. But as you said; Idk this at all on my own, only from this dealer- who I do consider to be honest. But when it comes to biz I'm somewhat more skeptical.

[Lurker]

Once on the subject- is there any reason to avoid dealers off the internet? I see comparable vans on cars.com craigslist etc priced significantly better ($1500-2000) than what I'm being quoted by the frum dealer, and happens to be much nicer colors than what he's offering me. Yes, color is not my top criteria but if I'm spending some 20k, may as well like the color?? I don't know anything about these dealers but if the Carfax is good, is there any reason to not buy from them?? I mean after all, where is the frum dealer buying it from already?? The auction 

The price you see is never the price you pay online. There is not a single fee or any taxes/tags included. Most cars on cars.com and places like that are dealers who have the cars on their lots already, so you're paying for their lot costs, as well. If you're dealing with a frum dealer, make sure you get an all-in, off the lot price. I had luck having a dealer go to auction for me with my money, so he was willing to take a smaller cut.

[Dovdovmoneytree]

The price you see is never the price you pay online. There is not a single fee or any taxes/tags included. Most cars on cars.com and places like that are dealers who have the cars on their lots already, so you're paying for their lot costs, as well. If you're dealing with a frum dealer, make sure you get an all-in, off the lot price. I had luck having a dealer go to auction for me with my money, so he was willing to take a smaller cut.

Do you have any experience/knowledge with how much it gets jacked up on sites like cars.com? We talking $2-5,000 or $1000?
Also- when a frum dealer gives a quote, I don't think it is ever including taxes. At least it never has for me 

[EliJelly]

Do you have any experience/knowledge with how much it gets jacked up on sites like cars.com? We talking $2-5,000 or $1000?
Also- when a frum dealer gives a quote, I don't think it is ever including taxes. At least it never has for me 

Taxes are never included, but very easy to calculate yourself. It's the rest of the swindling dealership fees that sets them apart. Also I believe Cars.com is not a dealer themselves, it's just a platform to connect you to dealers

[Lurker]

Do you have any experience/knowledge with how much it gets jacked up on sites like cars.com? We talking $2-5,000 or $1000?
Also- when a frum dealer gives a quote, I don't think it is ever including taxes. At least it never has for me 

Think $2-5k from the online price, depending on the dealer. IME, it was almost always a minimum of $2k more.

Re the frum dealer, he won't quote you all in, but he'll give you add-in pricing if asked. I've had negative experiences with frum dealers, too, but less often than other places.

In general, if you plan on negotiating with any dealer, get the all-in price before you start haggling. Many dealers will be quick to knock some money off the front and tack it back on in fees before you sign.

[Lurker]

Taxes are never included, but very easy to calculate yourself. It's the rest of the swindling dealership fees that sets them apart. Also I believe Cars.com is not a dealer themselves, it's just a platform to connect you to dealers

Correct on all counts.

[lubaby]

Afaik, not from personal experience, used car dealers are professional ripoffs and you won't ever get the price you see online. Just take a few minutes and skim through some reviews.

Besides for the regular “shady used car dealers”, you can also look at regular big dealerships near you that have used car departments from people that bring in their trades.

[Dovdovmoneytree]

Besides for the regular “shady used car dealers”, you can also look at regular big dealerships near you that have used car departments from people that bring in their trades.

Once you're doing that, you can look at big dealerships anywhere. Big dealers list on cars.com too. But the commenters above say you will never pay the listed price.

[avromie7]

Actually the pacifica is also extremely popular in the frum circles so it's no longer just the sienna and odysees.

 I once asked a very busy mechanic on his experience with used minivans, he told me that sienna will have the longest life, a lot of people driving at 250k miles with no issues, odysse is a decent runner up, and the pacifica is the car he makes his parnasah from.. total piece of garbage beyond the first 30-50k miles, only a good option for a lease. He told me to stay away from a used pacifica. I didn't ask him on the sedona as it wasn't relevant at the time.

Prices for used siennas and even odysses are indeed through the roof now.

(And as a btw, speaking of minivans, the 2020 Sienna looks extremely appealing, especially the driver's seat setting and sidebars which is like a SUV and no longer the typical uncomfortable minivan seats. Not on the market yet)

I don't know anyone that bought a used pacifica.

[Dovdovmoneytree]

Think $2-5k from the online price, depending on the dealer. IME, it was almost always a minimum of $2k more.

Re the frum dealer, he won't quote you all in, but he'll give you add-in pricing if asked. I've had negative experiences with frum dealers, too, but less often than other places.

In general, if you plan on negotiating with any dealer, get the all-in price before you start haggling. Many dealers will be quick to knock some money off the front and tack it back on in fees before you sign.

Thankfully I have had very good experiences with frum dealers but I also have heard some horror stories- all with the same dealer. (I happened to be lucky and bought from that very dealer prior to hearing these stories and still have that van 11+ yrs later with literally no major issues.) Yes; some frum guys are more honest than others too.

[etech0]

Correct, Pacifica has become popular too due to good leases, at times. And yes; everyone I speak to says they are a disaster., garbage.

+1
everyone I know who leased a Pacifica hated it
spent way to much time going back and forth to the dealer, and had to leave it there way too long many times

[Dovdovmoneytree]

The older models aren't great, but they redesigned them a few years ago and they are top-notch now. I actually like it better than the Sienna and Odyssey because it drives more like a car than a minivan. Of the people I know who have the Sedona, I haven't heard any complaints, and some bought on my recommendation, so I'd be the first one they'd tell  .

  Do you know what was redesigned? What was not good before that was fixed?

The Sedona I have can be sold now at market value for just $1000 less than I paid for it, extra mileage included.

How long do you have it, how many miles put on if you don't mind my asking?

[Lurker]

Do you know what was redesigned? What was not good before that was fixed?

How long do you have it, how many miles put on if you don't mind my asking?

I've had it just over 2 years and put 15k miles on it. It hasn't gotten a lot of use since Purim...

https://www.cars.com/research/kia-sedona-2017/

[EliJelly]

I don't know anyone that bought a used pacifica.

Me neither, but I came across a dealer who had several pacificas with very low mileage at extremely low prices. Perhaps the mechanic's experience was from people who bought and own.

[Dovdovmoneytree]

I've had it just over 2 years and put 15k miles on it. It hasn't gotten a lot of use since Purim...

https://www.cars.com/research/kia-sedona-2017/

Thank you

Yeah, sadly most of our vans haven't gotten much use since Purim.

[Dovdovmoneytree]

Think $2-5k from the online price, depending on the dealer. IME, it was almost always a minimum of $2k more.

So all that was mentioned above was about shrewd pricing changes. Aside from this; would there be any other reasons not to look into vehicles posted by dealers on cars.com or other sites? Again- this is based on this that the vehicle history will be checked with Carfax or the like? So if I can find a van that after all their shenanigans is <= what the frum dealer is quoting me (I personally would only stick to larger dealerships, not the one location shops) just in a nicer color etc, is there any reason to hesitate buying from such a dealer?

@EliJelly you have anything to add here?

[EliJelly]

So all that was mentioned above was about shrewd pricing changes. Aside from this; would there be any other reasons not to look into vehicles posted by dealers on cars.com or other sites? Again- this is based on this that the vehicle history will be checked with Carfax or the like? So if I can find a van that after all their shenanigans is <= what the frum dealer is quoting me (I personally would only stick to larger dealerships, not the one location shops) just in a nicer color etc, is there any reason to hesitate buying from such a dealer?

@EliJelly you have anything to add here?

If you're happy with their great grand total and a mechanic you trust approves the vehicle then it would make sense for me.

[etech0]

From what I've heard you can't rely on the mileage they say

[Lurker]

So all that was mentioned above was about shrewd pricing changes. Aside from this; would there be any other reasons not to look into vehicles posted by dealers on cars.com or other sites? Again- this is based on this that the vehicle history will be checked with Carfax or the like? So if I can find a van that after all their shenanigans is <= what the frum dealer is quoting me (I personally would only stick to larger dealerships, not the one location shops) just in a nicer color etc, is there any reason to hesitate buying from such a dealer?

@EliJelly you have anything to add here?

There's a lot of bait-and-switch on these sites. They'll have a deal that looks amazing, Carfax and all, but when you get there, that car was magically just sold (it was an amazing deal, makes sense, right?). Somehow they have another, very similar car, a bit more miles, a few more dings, pretty much the same price, perfect for you! Until you see the car and have their off-the-lot price, don't get excited about a great deal on these sites. Once you've seen the car and it checks out, then I agree that:

If you're happy with their great grand total and a mechanic you trust approves the vehicle then it would make sense for me.

This is also true, another reason to see the actual car:

From what I've heard you can't rely on the mileage they say