Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again

[Lurker]

People who do these things are indeed reckless, regardless of Covid...

Those videos were deeply disturbing, and not because of Covid.

I was personally a bit disturbed, but living in a glass house, I'm not about to throw stones.

[incendia]

https://twitter.com/DYShor/status/1316217613345849344

https://twitter.com/DYShor/status/1316219100360830976

1)People keep on saying that frum communities were hit hardest, but I've never seen proof.  Someone recently posted on DDF a cumulative case count map of NYC zipcodes and pointed out that The Bronx and Northern Queens had more cases than BP and Flatbush.
[ETA link for the post with the map https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=120203.msg2334999#msg2334999 ]

2) Facemask compliance is way up, people may be flouting the rules at shul but in other parts of life there is at least some compliance with the rules.

3) No part of Jewish lifestyle says you can't wear masks in shul or at the store

4) if you live a relatively dangerous lifestyle its incumbent upon you to take extra precautions

[avromie7]

He's ignoring another important factor, also related to our lifestyle. As a community, we travel more than almost any other group. You cannot rule out the probability that this contributed to the virus being imported from other places.

Even on flights to big Jewish destinations (NYC-MCO), you'd be hard pressed to find a flight that's mostly Jews. I think you're overestimating the amount of travel among orthodox Jews relative to the rest of the country.

I'm not saying it didn't contribute to spread, I'm questioning your assumption that it had a greater impact on Orthodox Jews

[aygart]

Even on flights to big Jewish destinations (NYC-MCO), you'd be hard pressed to find a flight that's mostly Jews. I think you're overestimating the amount of travel among orthodox Jews relative to the rest of the country.

I'm not saying it didn't contribute to spread, I'm questioning your assumption that it had a greater impact on Orthodox Jews

What percentage of the population are Jews?

[Lurker]

Even on flights to big Jewish destinations (NYC-MCO), you'd be hard pressed to find a flight that's mostly Jews. I think you're overestimating the amount of travel among orthodox Jews relative to the rest of the country.

I'm not saying it didn't contribute to spread, I'm questioning your assumption that it had a greater impact on Orthodox Jews

You're calculating things backwards. Don't look at all the flights in the world and calculate how many frum Jews are on them. Look at each community and calculate how many of them have traveled recently or travel regularly. It is grossly disproportionate. And that's without taking into consideration people who drive between communities.

[avromie7]

What percentage of the population are Jews?

What percentage of flights out of NYC have any Orthodox Jews on them? I should clarify, unless it's the few highest travel days to MCO (erev yom tov, isru chag, etc.) orthodox jews make up a small minority of passengers, and this is probably the most traveled route.

[avromie7]

You're calculating things backwards. Don't look at all the flights in the world and calculate how many frum Jews are on them. Look at each community and calculate how many of them have traveled recently or travel regularly. It is grossly disproportionate. And that's without taking into consideration people who drive between communities.

I have no way of knowing how many people in any community traveled recently. The best anecdotal evidence is based on how many people are flying and how that compares to the demographic in the NYC area.

[Lurker]

I have no way of knowing how many people in any community traveled recently. The best anecdotal evidence is based on how many people are flying and how that compares to the demographic in the NYC area.

You have more knowledge of who travels or travelled in your community than you have of how many Jews are on every flight in and out of NY.

[avromie7]

You have more knowledge of who travels or travelled in your community than you have of how many Jews are on every flight in and out of NY.

That may be true for the 150 families in my neighborhood, it's definitely not true for the hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Jews in the NYC area.

[Lurker]

That may be true for the 150 families in my neighborhood, it's definitely not true for the hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Jews in the NYC area.

 

[skyguy918]

Why are you putting the onus on him to prove that frum Jews don't travel more than the average American? What do you have supporting your position that they do?

[Yehuda57]

My bubby ate cheerios for breakfast yesterday, so General Mills redirected all their inventory to frum grocery stores

[avromie7]

That may be true for the 150 families in my neighborhood, it's definitely not true for the hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Jews in the NYC area.

ETA: I also have no idea about everyone else in the NYC area.

Remember, we're not discussing whether or not Orthodox Jews travel, we're discussing your claim that Orthodox Jews travel more than other communities.

[Lurker]

Why are you putting the onus on him to prove that frum Jews don't travel more than the average American? What do you have supporting your position that they do?

It's purely anecdotal. I've lived in non-Jewish environments and communities more than I've lived in frum ones. I've met very few frum people who have never been on a plane. It's not uncommon at all to meet non-Jews who've never bee out of state or on a plane, let alone out of the country. We have a disproportionate participation in overnight camps. We have well attended programs for every YT all over the country and all over the world. We have much larger than average families, with well attended simchos all over the world. These things don't happen in non-Jewish communities at anywhere near the same frequency as they do by us. To be clear: they do happen, non-Jews travel, and there are many frequent flyers. But to find a high concentration of them in any one community is very rare.

[etech0]

It's purely anecdotal. I've lived in non-Jewish environments and communities more than I've lived in frum ones. I've met very few frum people who have never been on a plane. It's not uncommon at all to meet non-Jews who've never bee out of state or on a plane, let alone out of the country. We have a disproportionate participation in overnight camps. We have well attended programs for every YT all over the country and all over the world. We have much larger than average families, with well attended simchos all over the world. These things don't happen in non-Jewish communities at anywhere near the same frequency as they do by us. To be clear: they do happen, non-Jews travel, and there are many frequent flyers. But to find a high concentration of them in any one community is very rare.

Could that be because you live outside the tri-state area, and in the frum world that means you'll need to fly to visit relatives, attend many simchos, and go to overnight camp?

[avromie7]

It's purely anecdotal. I've lived in non-Jewish environments and communities more than I've lived in frum ones. I've met very few frum people who have never been on a plane. It's not uncommon at all to meet non-Jews who've never bee out of state or on a plane, let alone out of the country. We have a disproportionate participation in overnight camps. We have well attended programs for every YT all over the country and all over the world. We have much larger than average families, with well attended simchos all over the world. These things don't happen in non-Jewish communities at anywhere near the same frequency as they do by us. To be clear: they do happen, non-Jews travel, and there are many frequent flyers. But to find a high concentration of them in any one community is very rare.

I have, in fact I was never on a plane before I turned 21.

[Lurker]

Could that be because you live outside the tri-state area, and in the frum world that means you'll need to fly to visit relatives, attend many simchos, and go to overnight camp?

I've lived in NY and the Tri-state area, as well, I've just spent more time outside than in. Honestly, I flew more when I lived in NY. And living in FL, there are a ridiculous amount of frum people from all over who come here all year long.

[Lurker]

I have, in fact I was never on a plane before I turned 21.

I'm not talking children. I've met many, many middle-aged people who have never flown.

[skyguy918]

It's purely anecdotal.

Ie, you're making it up as you go along. I expect a little better from you.

[yzj]

Battle of wills

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1909775/day-three-dozens-of-inspectors-swam-boro-park-and-flatbush-video.html

“Highly credible sources tell YWN that NY Governor Cuomo was livid on Tuesday night after watching a ABC7 news report showing hundreds of children coming out of a popular girls school in Boro Park. The Governor was furious that the community was flouting authority, and that hundreds of businesses and dozens of Yeshivas remained open despite the Executive order to close.”

He going to wage war until they cry uncle.
https://patch.com/new-york/newcity/ny-withhold-funds-governments-schools-over-coronavirus