Author Topic: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again  (Read 91150 times)

Offline yosefsv

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #620 on: October 15, 2020, 03:30:59 PM »
If anyone here is OK sending their kids, can you explain your thought process?
1) The risk of not having school is worse then the risk of having school.
2) The Rabbonim know the actual situation on the ground, and if they feel comfortable to have the schools open then I am too.
3) I and my DW already had the virus and we both have antibodies, and we believe that our children all already had it (they all had fever etc. while we had it).
4) It seems like its not dangerous for children.
5) Everybody will anyway have it sooner or later.
6) Our community does not seem to care that their might be people who are carrying the virus.

If it benefits even just one fellow DDFer, its worth posting it.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #621 on: October 15, 2020, 03:33:39 PM »
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1910305/powerful-op-ed-by-shlomo-yehuda-rechnitz-calls-out-tischler-as-rodef-slams-protests-in-boro-park.html

not sure if this is the correct thread but i do think everyone should read it and that he is totally right

It's been posted a couple of times already, and he absolutely is.
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Offline Mootkim

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #622 on: October 15, 2020, 03:40:01 PM »
1) The risk of not having school is worse then the risk of having school.
2) The Rabbonim know the actual situation on the ground, and if they feel comfortable to have the schools open then I am too.
3) I and my DW already had the virus and we both have antibodies, and we believe that our children all already had it (they all had fever etc. while we had it).
4) It seems like its not dangerous for children.
5) Everybody will anyway have it sooner or later.
6) Our community does not seem to care that their might be people who are carrying the virus.
I would also add: What exactly is the game plan? to have schools open for a few days and then shut again over and over? for there to be zero cases at all?? Are we supposed to just shut our lives for 2 years? Sooner or later we need to learn to live with it.

To quote Rabbi Bender, "it is time to take out the dreidels"

Offline LNS

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #623 on: October 15, 2020, 03:42:51 PM »
It's been posted a couple of times already, and he absolutely is.
oh sorry haven't been following and just came across this article

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #624 on: October 15, 2020, 04:14:34 PM »
This is what people seem to be missing. You don't live in a bubble, and neither does anyone else. Every action you take has the potential to affect those around you. Leaving the health issues aside, can you not see how extremely detrimental this can be to the school and the entire community on a legal/governmental level if it goes south?

When dealing with a wild animal in a zoo, there are rules and regulations in place to keep you safe and the animal performing the way it should. If you break those rules and provoke the animal, you will get attacked. While being attacked, there are actions you can take to make the animal lose interest, ot you can keep on provoking the animal to encourage the continuation of the attack. After the attack, you can sue the zoo. While you are being attacked, blaming the animal or the zoo system won't help you.

By all means, keep provoking the animal.
Are you really implying that the tens of thousands of Jewish families in NY who would otherwise send their Bachurim, boys and girls in yeshiva/school no problem, shouldn't even arrange some sort of "basement" alternative - which to my knowledge can't and won't trigger a withholding of school funds - just and wholly because it may provoke the animal (Coumo), as you say "Leaving the health issues aside"? You know very well that these schools can't run via zoom, and we know too well that class phone conferencing is a little to none alternative, even if it would have been shayech to set it up properly.

I'm sorry, but there's only a certain price one would pay to calm down the animal, and keeping the bachurim and boys 2 weeks without proper Torah learning, and the rest of nudgy kids at home driving the entire family insane, isn't it.

Offline Luvisrael

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #625 on: October 15, 2020, 04:31:47 PM »
It's been posted a couple of times already, and he absolutely is.
one thing is for sure. Public opinion of our community is at an all time low. Cuomo and Deblasio opinion of us isn’t that great either. What do we gain by Public protest? Who’s minds are we trying to change? It seems the best route would be to hold talks with our community “leaders” and govt behind closed doors?

Offline TimT

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #626 on: October 15, 2020, 04:42:36 PM »
It seems the best route would be to hold talks with our community “leaders” and govt behind closed doors?
While this sounds like a great plan, problem is that the elected “leaders” have been in isolation for 6 months now. One reason everyone crowds around Tishler is because he’s the only one showing up on the streets. And when there’s was a meeting with the governor he went & screwed them over.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #627 on: October 15, 2020, 04:49:06 PM »
While this sounds like a great plan, problem is that the elected “leaders” have been in isolation for 6 months now. One reason everyone crowds around Tishler is because he’s the only one showing up on the streets. And when there’s was a meeting with the governor he went & screwed them over.

The leaders are getting hammered by every politician. "The Jews are the only ones not being compliant, the Jews think they are above the law," etc etc. Now, cases are up and they have numbers to add to their complaints. Anyone involved in local politics will tell you they get dozens of calls every day.

Now, you and I know that much of what's behind these complaints is BS, and the lockdown rules will only make compliance worse, not better. But them be the facts. It's very tough to fight city hall when city hall is getting complaints from all sides telling them to do something about the Jews.

I don't know what the answer is.

Online aygart

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #628 on: October 15, 2020, 05:08:22 PM »
The leaders are getting hammered by every politician. "The Jews are the only ones not being compliant, the Jews think they are above the law," etc etc. Now, cases are up and they have numbers to add to their complaints. Anyone involved in local politics will tell you they get dozens of calls every day.

Now, you and I know that much of what's behind these complaints is BS, and the lockdown rules will only make compliance worse, not better. But them be the facts. It's very tough to fight city hall when city hall is getting complaints from all sides telling them to do something about the Jews.

I don't know what the answer is.

Had there been even some superficial show of acknowledging the virus exists over the last few months I think that would have been helped significantly. It can still help something even now. An example would be for people to wear masks as chin guards. It would allow a "we are wearing masks". Right now we opened ourselves up to an impression that is not altogether wrong of not caring at all about a deadly virus.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #629 on: October 15, 2020, 05:11:49 PM »
Had there been even some superficial show of acknowledging the virus exists over the last few months I think that would have been helped significantly. It can still help something even now. An example would be for people to wear masks as chin guards. It would allow a "we are wearing masks". Right now we opened ourselves up to an impression that is not altogether wrong of not caring at all about a deadly virus.

Many of the "leaders" @TimT is talking about were asking for people to wear masks. They were ignored or laughed at.

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #630 on: October 15, 2020, 05:14:04 PM »
Had there been even some superficial show of acknowledging the virus exists over the last few months I think that would have been helped significantly. It can still help something even now. An example would be for people to wear masks as chin guards. It would allow a "we are wearing masks". Right now we opened ourselves up to an impression that is not altogether wrong of not caring at all about a deadly virus.
I call it "איבה masks", getting more and more popular, not sure if to a satisfactory point though.

And even just below the nose isn't uncomfortable IME, and surely is a better איבה protection.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 05:17:10 PM by EliJelly »

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #631 on: October 15, 2020, 05:30:53 PM »
" "
I approve of the quotation marks.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline TimT

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #632 on: October 15, 2020, 05:53:08 PM »
The leaders are getting hammered by every politician. "The Jews are the only ones not being compliant, the Jews think they are above the law," etc etc. Now, cases are up and they have numbers to add to their complaints. Anyone involved in local politics will tell you they get dozens of calls every day.

Now, you and I know that much of what's behind these complaints is BS, and the lockdown rules will only make compliance worse, not better. But them be the facts. It's very tough to fight city hall when city hall is getting complaints from all sides telling them to do something about the Jews.

Business owners have tried reaching these politicians. Some don’t even bother calling back while others had no clue what’s been taking place on the streets these last few days. Must be so nice to sit home & collect a paycheck. When our fence-cutter-in-chief was opening up the parks they all came out of hiding for the photos to collect some credit.
I don't know what the answer is.
That’s why you weren’t elected to Albany

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #633 on: October 15, 2020, 06:02:28 PM »
That’s why you weren’t elected to Albany

Because those that were seem to have it all figured out.


Offline TimT

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #634 on: October 15, 2020, 06:04:33 PM »
Because those that were seem to have it all figured out.
Exactly the sentiment around here. There is nobody like Hikind.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 06:07:57 PM by TimT »

Offline Luvisrael

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Offline Lurker

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #636 on: October 15, 2020, 06:17:28 PM »
Are you really implying that the tens of thousands of Jewish families in NY who would otherwise send their Bachurim, boys and girls in yeshiva/school no problem, shouldn't even arrange some sort of "basement" alternative - which to my knowledge can't and won't trigger a withholding of school funds - just and wholly because it may provoke the animal (Coumo), as you say "Leaving the health issues aside"? You know very well that these schools can't run via zoom, and we know too well that class phone conferencing is a little to none alternative, even if it would have been shayech to set it up properly.

I'm sorry, but there's only a certain price one would pay to calm down the animal, and keeping the bachurim and boys 2 weeks without proper Torah learning, and the rest of nudgy kids at home driving the entire family insane, isn't it.

I won't pretend to have an answer to the school dilemma. I freely admit that I'm more analyst than idea-man. But not having a better answer doesn't make the basement schools a good idea. When this gets out, and it will, and it coincides with a large wave in NY, we will be blamed and have no viable defense, because the optics are indefensible. This isn't just about right now, or funding for this year. This has the ability to derail the frum agenda in NY for years and years to come. This has the ability to ratchet up the hate and division with our neighbors to unprecedented levels. This has the ability to cause real, physical harm, in ways which we had only begun to get a glimpse of over the last few years.

If you think this is just about Cuomo or DeBlasio, you're wrong. They are just the tip of the iceberg. We don't have many friends in legislature. Most of the ones who give us the time of day will be more than happy to throw us to the wolves if public sentiment is on their side. As someone else (@aygart ?) said, the up and comers on the left make the current crop look moderate. And we do need friends in legislature. Crises in housing, poverty, and school funding will be joined by attacks on metzitza, kaparos, shchita, batei din, and other things we value greatly. We're playing with fire here.
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #637 on: October 15, 2020, 06:43:32 PM »
I would also add: What exactly is the game plan? to have schools open for a few days and then shut again over and over? for there to be zero cases at all?? Are we supposed to just shut our lives for 2 years? Sooner or later we need to learn to live with it.

To quote Rabbi Bender, "it is time to take out the dreidels"
There comes a time when you have to do what is right no matter the cost. This is for the gedolim to decide but the situation is one that may call for desperate measures. I just spoke to a 7th grade Rebbe in a good yeshiva in Brooklyn that is using zoom and they are losing the kids in multiple ways. There’s a time when you have to sacrifice everything for the chinuch of the next dor including relationships in Albany and that time is fast approaching.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #638 on: October 15, 2020, 06:54:06 PM »
There comes a time when you have to do what is right no matter the cost. This is for the gedolim to decide but the situation is one that may call for desperate measures. I just spoke to a 7th grade Rebbe in a good yeshiva in Brooklyn that is using zoom and they are losing the kids in multiple ways. There’s a time when you have to sacrifice everything for the chinuch of the next dor including relationships in Albany and that time is fast approaching.

I have a 6th grader on Zoom. In person school is hard enough, and Zoom does nobody any favors. But I still think it's the best option so far.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #639 on: October 15, 2020, 06:55:42 PM »
I have a 6th grader
And here I thought I was an old man