Author Topic: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again  (Read 92721 times)

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #640 on: October 15, 2020, 06:56:32 PM »
I won't pretend to have an answer to the school dilemma. I freely admit that I'm more analyst than idea-man. But not having a better answer doesn't make the basement schools a good idea. When this gets out, and it will, and it coincides with a large wave in NY, we will be blamed and have no viable defense, because the optics are indefensible. This isn't just about right now, or funding for this year. This has the ability to derail the frum agenda in NY for years and years to come. This has the ability to ratchet up the hate and division with our neighbors to unprecedented levels. This has the ability to cause real, physical harm, in ways which we had only begun to get a glimpse of over the last few years.

If you think this is just about Cuomo or DeBlasio, you're wrong. They are just the tip of the iceberg. We don't have many friends in legislature. Most of the ones who give us the time of day will be more than happy to throw us to the wolves if public sentiment is on their side. As someone else (@aygart ?) said, the up and comers on the left make the current crop look moderate. And we do need friends in legislature. Crises in housing, poverty, and school funding will be joined by attacks on metzitza, kaparos, shchita, batei din, and other things we value greatly. We're playing with fire here.
You're describing a lose-lose situation, unfortunately.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #641 on: October 15, 2020, 06:58:46 PM »
You're describing a lose-lose situation, unfortunately.

Maybe, but that doesn't mean we throw in the towel and lose.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #642 on: October 15, 2020, 06:59:42 PM »
And here I thought I was an old man

How does my 6th grader change that?   ;)
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #643 on: October 15, 2020, 07:08:15 PM »
I feel like there’s a certain danger in America in that it’s been so comfortable that we’ve forgotten what it’s like to sacrifice everything for what we believe in. That is the situation that the Jews faced in Spain and the result was that many were not able to rise to the call.

Offline Lurker

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #644 on: October 15, 2020, 07:13:20 PM »
I feel like there’s a certain danger in America in that it’s been so comfortable that we’ve forgotten what it’s like to sacrifice everything for what we believe in. That is the situation that the Jews faced in Spain and the result was that many were not able to rise to the call.

My personal opinion is that this isn't a situation where what we believe in is being challenged, just how we've gotten used to doing it. And even that is temporary due to circumstances beyond any human control.
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Offline Afrages6

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #645 on: October 15, 2020, 07:30:05 PM »
My personal opinion is that this isn't a situation where what we believe in is being challenged, just how we've gotten used to doing it. And even that is temporary due to circumstances beyond any human control.
A temporary thing that has no end in sight. Just this week Cuomo said that we will need to keep the status quo for at least a year after a vaccine is available.

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #646 on: October 15, 2020, 07:34:14 PM »
My personal opinion is that this isn't a situation where what we believe in is being challenged, just how we've gotten used to doing it. And even that is temporary due to circumstances beyond any human control.
A temporary thing that has no end in sight. Just this week Cuomo said that we will need to keep the status quo for at least a year after a vaccine is available.
There's no way they're going to relinquish this control, they'll find a new excuse.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Afrages6

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #647 on: October 15, 2020, 07:37:24 PM »
There's no way they're going to relinquish this control, they'll find a new excuse.
Exactly. So I’m curious when [mention]Lurker [/mention]thinks this well end and for how long people should be willing to watch kids waste away on zoom.

Offline S209

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #648 on: October 15, 2020, 07:45:59 PM »
Exactly. So I’m curious when [mention]Lurker [/mention]thinks this well end and for how long people should be willing to watch kids waste away on zoom.
How about let children attend in-person school and make small weddings? Or is it worth sacrificing everything to be able to have 400 guests including people from out of state at every wedding?
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Offline Afrages6

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #649 on: October 15, 2020, 07:50:26 PM »
How about let children attend in-person school and make small weddings? Or is it worth sacrificing everything to be able to have 400 guests including people from out of state at every wedding?
Straw man argument if I ever saw one. I’m talking about kids in school and you’re telling me that we shouldn’t have 400 person weddings, you’ll have zero argument from me about that one. But once we are here, when would you think it’s safe to have a 400 person wedding?

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #650 on: October 15, 2020, 07:58:25 PM »
If mesirus nefesh to send kids to basement schools was the beginning and end of our התגרות ב coumo, we'd be doing pretty good

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #651 on: October 15, 2020, 07:59:49 PM »
But once we are here, when would you think it’s safe to have a 400 person wedding?
due to covid concerns? or heart attack concerns?

Offline Afrages6

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #652 on: October 15, 2020, 08:01:18 PM »
due to covid concerns? or heart attack concerns?
Health

Offline Lurker

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #653 on: October 15, 2020, 08:12:27 PM »
@Afrages6 @avromie7 You guys remember that schools were open before Tishrei, right? WE DID THIS. Don't forget that. They weren't attacking our schools until we decided we could cancel Covid and shove it in everyone's faces. So yes, this is a temporary situation, and one that can be avoided in the future, even if the virus is still around. When will it end? I don't know. But we seem to be hell-bent on making things as hard as possible for ourselves until it does.
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Online aygart

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #654 on: October 15, 2020, 08:47:37 PM »
Straw man argument if I ever saw one. I’m talking about kids in school and you’re telling me that we shouldn’t have 400 person weddings, you’ll have zero argument from me about that one. But once we are here, when would you think it’s safe to have a 400 person wedding?
How about we take a hypothetical of never. Now what. Is not having 400 people at a wedding really such an attack on religion?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #655 on: October 15, 2020, 08:51:39 PM »
I feel like there’s a certain danger in America in that it’s been so comfortable that we’ve forgotten what it’s like to sacrifice everything for what we believe in. That is the situation that the Jews faced in Spain and the result was that many were not able to rise to the call.

The comfort we have is believing that anti-semitism is something that simply needs to be denounced, and doesn’t require any action on our part to prevent. Real Mesirus nefesh means wearing a mask and listening to the rules even if they’re tough and make no sense so we can keep our schools and shuls open. Trying to circumvent the rules got us in this mess in the first place, circumventing them further will only prompt them to double down.
Visibly Jewish

Online yitzgar

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #656 on: October 15, 2020, 08:54:01 PM »
The comfort we have is believing that anti-semitism is something that simply needs to be denounced, and doesn’t require any action on our part to prevent. Real Mesirus nefesh means wearing a mask and listening to the rules so we can keep our schools and shuls open. Trying to circumvent the rules got us in this mess in the first place, circumventing them further will only prompt them to double down.
+1billion!
How many people have I heard saying H' wants us to be moiser nefesh for our shuls and children's chinuch? Well just maybe that mesiras nefesh is wearing a mask even if it's a little uncomfortable

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #657 on: October 15, 2020, 09:03:25 PM »
The comfort we have is believing that anti-semitism is something that simply needs to be denounced, and doesn’t require any action on our part to prevent. Real Mesirus nefesh means wearing a mask and listening to the rules even if they’re tough and make no sense so we can keep our schools and shuls open. Trying to circumvent the rules got us in this mess in the first place, circumventing them further will only prompt them to double down.
Beautifully put.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #658 on: October 15, 2020, 09:35:20 PM »
Health
Aren't both covid and heart attack health concerns?

Offline S209

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #659 on: October 15, 2020, 10:42:43 PM »
Straw man argument if I ever saw one. I’m talking about kids in school and you’re telling me that we shouldn’t have 400 person weddings, you’ll have zero argument from me about that one. But once we are here, when would you think it’s safe to have a 400 person wedding?
Explain how it’s a straw man? Have you forgotten that kids were allowed into school and did so, until complete recklessness (such as 400+ person weddings) caused it to get out of hand? When people post how this is the equivalent of leaving Spain, and we need to be moser nefesh, make no mistake: they’re making the argument that we should leave because we can’t make the 400 person weddings, not because of schools.

To answer your question (which I shouldn’t need to, because if it’s unsafe now it’s not a valid cheshbon that “we may never be able to”, that doesn’t change the current metzius, it’s not up to us to play G-d only do do the hishtadlus we are expected to), let’s say never. Does that change the argument?
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