Author Topic: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again  (Read 91030 times)

Offline AsherO

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #780 on: November 08, 2020, 11:16:17 AM »
I love how somehow both narratives are carried at the same time. Don't elect Biden bc he's going to institute federal mask mandates and lockdowns. If Biden is elected we'll see that the D's were politicizing Covid all along, and it'll disapper. ::)

Both have a tzad hashaveh, Biden doesn’t actually have a handle on COVID and his administration might very well bungle their response.
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #781 on: November 08, 2020, 11:18:17 AM »
Come on, it was a joke. I love how some ppl can't take one.

I personally don't care about mask mandates, already wear one all the time anyway. I doubt lockdowns can or will happen at a federal level. And Ds do politicize COVID (very obviously), but even so it unfortunately won't be disappearing anytime soon (although we all wish it would).
I'm quoting you because that's the most recent time I saw it. But you better believe there are many who are saying it seriously.

Both have a tzad hashaveh, Biden doesn’t actually have a handle on COVID and his administration might very well bungle their response.
Gimme a break. The tzad hashaveh is that they're both things said by people who don't take Covid seriously.

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #782 on: November 08, 2020, 11:52:01 AM »
Gimme a break. The tzad hashaveh is that they're both things said by people who don't take Covid seriously.

I hope you don't believe that Biden has some magical plan to make COVID disappear. Unfortunately, its here to stay until an effective vaccine is in play.

He might try this and that and the other to try to show he's doing something, anything, but it will very likely be a bungled response as @AsherO said  (I'd like to say for sure will be, but will give the benefit of the doubt).

Offline aygart

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #783 on: November 08, 2020, 11:53:44 AM »
I hope you don't believe that Biden has some magical plan to make COVID disappear. Unfortunately, its here to stay until an effective vaccine is in play.

He might try this and that and the other to try to show he's doing something, anything, but it will very likely be a bungled response as @AsherO said  (I'd like to say for sure will be, but will give the benefit of the doubt).
There is nothing anyone could do about it and the response will be bungled. Lol
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Euclid

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #784 on: November 08, 2020, 11:56:48 AM »
There is nothing anyone could do about it and the response will be bungled. Lol
#ThrowingOurHandsUpSinceMarch2020

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #785 on: November 08, 2020, 12:00:31 PM »
Gimme a break. The tzad hashaveh is that they're both things said by people who don't take Covid seriously.

The common theme is that these people believe that media = reality. If the media sells a narrative of lockdown vs normal, then there can't be anything in between. If the media says Covid is overblown or is going to kill us all, then everyone must buy in to one of those extreme opinions. And if the media stops talking about Covid for a few days because there are more time-sensitive issues to report on, then Covid must be over.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #786 on: November 08, 2020, 12:02:40 PM »
#ThrowingOurHandsUpSinceMarch2020

Fatalism, a part of Orthodox Judaism since 2020. Pick yours up at your local mikvah.
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #787 on: November 08, 2020, 12:08:46 PM »
I hope you don't believe that Biden has some magical plan to make COVID disappear. Unfortunately, its here to stay until an effective vaccine is in play.

He might try this and that and the other to try to show he's doing something, anything, but it will very likely be a bungled response as @AsherO said  (I'd like to say for sure will be, but will give the benefit of the doubt).
I do not believe that. But it would be hard to do much worse than Trump. And to be clear, I don't think our country's success or failure is 100% on the president - there have been failure at every level, including by D controlled states and cities. But within government the largest single share of responsibility is on the president.

Offline TimT

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #788 on: November 08, 2020, 12:22:58 PM »
But within government the largest single share of responsibility is on the president.
This probably depends on the state. Here in NY it’s all on Cuomo. He has the final say, and he’s very adamant & vocal about it.

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #789 on: November 08, 2020, 12:27:14 PM »
But within government the largest single share of responsibility is on the president.

Even for the high number of deaths in NYS and specifically NYC? Sorry but that's completely on Cuomo and De Blasio as are the obnoxious recent uncalled for red zone business which did nothing concrete. Plus lots of other of their bungled responses that were at best worthless and at worst fatal.

Just to bring this thread back on track...

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #790 on: November 08, 2020, 12:41:11 PM »
This probably depends on the state. Here in NY it’s all on Cuomo. He has the final say, and he’s very adamant & vocal about it.
Even for the high number of deaths in NYS and specifically NYC? Sorry but that's completely on Cuomo and De Blasio as are the obnoxious recent uncalled for red zone business which did nothing concrete. Plus lots of other of their bungled responses that were at best worthless and at worst fatal.

Just to bring this thread back on track...
I don't mean to any specific individual - obviously a person in state/city x is most affected by the leadership in state/city x. But in aggregate, the single individual with the highest impact on the country as a whole - all 300+ million people - is the president. As far as NY, yes Cuomo ( and to a lesser extent BDB) had the biggest impact. And while I thing they bungled many things, I strongly believe that if they'd taken the administrations approach throughout, it would have been much worse from a medical perspective (not getting into the medical-economics trade-off). There exists a middle ground - a whole host of things that could have been done differently from either Trump's way or Cuomo's way.

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #791 on: November 08, 2020, 01:13:33 PM »
There exists a middle ground - a whole host of things that could have been done differently from either Trump's way or Cuomo's way.

Which we have no way of knowing there would be a better outcome with. Its not like this was some kind of clinical trial with a control group and all.

Basically everything was (and still pretty much is) being made up as we went along and there's no way to prove a different outcome had this or that or the other been done differently.

Offline S209

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #792 on: November 08, 2020, 01:57:58 PM »
Which we have no way of knowing there would be a better outcome with. Its not like this was some kind of clinical trial with a control group and all.

Basically everything was (and still pretty much is) being made up as we went along and there's no way to prove a different outcome had this or that or the other been done differently.
Fortunately, we have every other country in the world to compare ourselves to. While there are certainly key differences in the makeup and circumstances of each country, we can use the available data and metrics to see what succeeded and what failed.
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Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #793 on: November 08, 2020, 02:47:43 PM »
Fortunately, we have every other country in the world to compare ourselves to. While there are certainly key differences in the makeup and circumstances of each country, we can use the available data and metrics to see what succeeded and what failed.

Comparing to other countries is not the same as a clinical trial where all other factors would be identical except the one variable that you're looking to see if it would cause another outcome.

For that matter you don't have to compare to other countries. You can just compare responses between states. Probably already discussed many many times - FL and NY which have similar population size but FL likely has many more elderly. FL by now has 50% more reported cases than NY but almost half the amount of deaths. The data says it all for those who like to harp on data.

But again, I reiterate that short of having all the same factors in place and then implementing 2 different plans its really not possible to know.

In the meantime, mask wearing, hand washing, SD (and online shopping ;)) it is.

Offline S209

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #794 on: November 08, 2020, 02:58:33 PM »
Comparing to other countries is not the same as a clinical trial where all other factors would be identical except the one variable that you're looking to see if it would cause another outcome.

For that matter you don't have to compare to other countries. You can just compare responses between states. Probably already discussed many many times - FL and NY which have similar population size but FL likely has many more elderly. FL by now has 50% more reported cases than NY but almost half the amount of deaths. The data says it all for those who like to harp on data.

But again, I reiterate that short of having all the same factors in place and then implementing 2 different plans its really not possible to know.

Denmark vs. Sweden is as close as you’re going to get to a clinical trial. Florida and NY are decent comparisons, but considering they both have horrific numbers of deaths I wouldn’t want to emulate either of them.

In the meantime, mask wearing, hand washing, SD (and online shopping ;)) it is.
Exactly
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Offline yesitsme

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Offline AsherO

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #796 on: November 08, 2020, 03:17:20 PM »
I do not believe that. But it would be hard to do much worse than Trump. And to be clear, I don't think our country's success or failure is 100% on the president - there have been failure at every level, including by D controlled states and cities. But within government the largest single share of responsibility is on the president.

These are your opinions to which you’re certainly entitled, others will disagree. For instance, I don’t think a D administration (e.g. Obama/Biden and their task force) would have Operation Warp Speed underway with 5 domestically developed vaccine candidates in Phase III clinical trials by August and 2-3 of those expected to to pass regulatory approval by the end of the year with broad availability to all Americans within 1H21.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #797 on: November 08, 2020, 03:37:35 PM »
Probably already discussed many many times - FL and NY which have similar population size but FL likely has many more elderly. FL by now has 50% more reported cases than NY but almost half the amount of deaths. The data says it all for those who like to harp on data.
Florida and NY are decent comparisons

Leaving the rest of this argument aside, NY vs FL is a horrible comparison, and this has been discussed many, many times. The bulk of NY's deaths happened when there was minimal testing capabilities, very bad testing accuracy, and no treatment protocol. The first factor led to a high death rate, the second to even lower cases (higher death rate) and missed cases (delayed treatment), and the third to mistreatment and ensuing deaths. FL got hit later, when there were more tests, better tests, and better treatment. In short, the data says nothing without context, and the context says you can't compare FL and NY.
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #798 on: November 08, 2020, 03:55:15 PM »
These are your opinions to which you’re certainly entitled, others will disagree. For instance, I don’t think a D administration (e.g. Obama/Biden and their task force) would have Operation Warp Speed underway with 5 domestically developed vaccine candidates in Phase III clinical trials by August and 2-3 of those expected to to pass regulatory approval by the end of the year with broad availability to all Americans within 1H21.
So which single individual would you say shoulders more responsibility for handling of covid on the country as a whole than the president?

I hear your point about vaccines. I personally think that a D administration would have prioritized it as well, though likely not to the red-tape-cutting extent that Trump did. And obviously I acknowledge that all of these things are opinions.

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #799 on: November 08, 2020, 04:17:14 PM »
So which single individual would you say shoulders more responsibility for handling of covid on the country as a whole than the president?

Why does there need to be a single person to point your finger at?

And again, we have zero way of knowing if someone else thrown into this whole unknown virus situation would have done any better.