Author Topic: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again  (Read 33851 times)

Offline S209

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #800 on: November 08, 2020, 04:26:03 PM »
Why does there need to be a single person to point your finger at?

And again, we have zero way of knowing if someone else thrown into this whole unknown virus situation would have done any better.
-1

Not knowing definitively how someone else would have performed is not the same thing as “we have zero way of knowing.”
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Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #801 on: November 08, 2020, 04:32:24 PM »
Leaving the rest of this argument aside, NY vs FL is a horrible comparison, and this has been discussed many, many times. The bulk of NY's deaths happened when there was minimal testing capabilities, very bad testing accuracy, and no treatment protocol. The first factor led to a high death rate, the second to even lower cases (higher death rate) and missed cases (delayed treatment), and the third to mistreatment and ensuing deaths. FL got hit later, when there were more tests, better tests, and better treatment. In short, the data says nothing without context, and the context says you can't compare FL and NY.

I totally agree with you that you can't really compare them which just drives home my point that unless something is set up as a clinical trial with identical factors there is no use comparing or thinking perhaps we'd have a different outcome if xyz were done. But since the Denmark to Sweden comparison was brought up, I mentioned NY to FL.

Bottom line again is that we really cannot and will never know because we can't rewind the time and have a do over.

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #802 on: November 08, 2020, 04:35:37 PM »
-1

Not knowing definitively how someone else would have performed is not the same thing as “we have zero way of knowing.”

Sorry but both are the same to me.

And still doesn't answer why there needs to be someone to point your finger at. I don't know how many ppl in the world are getting up to applaud their leaders responses to COVID. Either because the death rate is too high or the economy is in the grave or both. Nobody is happy with the virus and not too many leaders can be graded A+ on their response.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #803 on: November 08, 2020, 04:52:41 PM »
-1

Not knowing definitively how someone else would have performed is not the same thing as “we have zero way of knowing.”
We know definitively that Biden would not have stopped travel from China.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #804 on: November 08, 2020, 06:02:46 PM »
So which single individual would you say shoulders more responsibility for handling of covid on the country as a whole than the president?

I hear your point about vaccines. I personally think that a D administration would have prioritized it as well, though likely not to the red-tape-cutting extent that Trump did. And obviously I acknowledge that all of these things are opinions.

I hope Biden to a much higher standard than Trump because:
1. He campaigned on the basis that COVID deaths were all Trump’s fault
2. He has the advantage of being able to blame Trump for all that is wrong with COVID while taking credit for whatever the Trump administration put in place.
3. When COVID hit in 1Q2020 everyone was equally clueless about COVID, gradually we learned more and got a better handle on things. So Biden and his team have the advantage of coming prepared to a situation that has already developed where we have lots more awareness.

Offline Dawie

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #805 on: November 08, 2020, 07:34:06 PM »

Offline S209

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #806 on: November 08, 2020, 07:38:44 PM »
Sorry but both are the same to me.

And still doesn't answer why there needs to be someone to point your finger at. I don't know how many ppl in the world are getting up to applaud their leaders responses to COVID. Either because the death rate is too high or the economy is in the grave or both. Nobody is happy with the virus and not too many leaders can be graded A+ on their response.
Speak to Danish citizens. They’re thrilled with their government’s capable and excellent response, both on COVID-19 spread and the economy.
We know definitively that Biden would not have stopped travel from China.
There is definitely truth to the fact that Biden said Trump shouldn’t implement the China travel ban at the time. To be fair, you don’t know that he wouldn’t have done it, only that he condemned it in response to Trump implementing it, as a way of scoring political points. But then, I am not saying Biden would have handled it well, only that Trump most certainly did not.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 07:44:00 PM by S209 »
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Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #807 on: November 08, 2020, 07:44:24 PM »


See the post at the top of this page by @yesitsme

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #808 on: November 08, 2020, 07:47:44 PM »
See the post at the top of this page by @yesitsme
Top of page depends on post per page setting

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #809 on: November 08, 2020, 07:49:02 PM »
Speak to Danish citizens. They’re thrilled with their government’s capable and excellent response, both on COVID-19 spread and the economy.

That's why I didn't say "nobody", I said I don't know how many because I knew someone would mention the Danish. What percentage of the world population are they? I'm just saying there aren't too many and you'd be hard pressed not to agree. Majority of the world population are not thrilled with the response to COVID-19.

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #810 on: November 08, 2020, 07:50:05 PM »

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #811 on: November 08, 2020, 07:50:30 PM »
Top of page depends on post per page setting

Sorry, that's right.

So see about 10 posts prior :).

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #812 on: November 08, 2020, 07:59:14 PM »
I hold Biden to a much higher standard than Trump because:
1. He campaigned on the basis that COVID deaths were all Trump’s fault
2. He has the advantage of being able to blame Trump for all that is wrong with COVID while taking credit for whatever the Trump administration put in place.
3. When COVID hit in 1Q2020 everyone was equally clueless about COVID, gradually we learned more and got a better handle on things. So Biden and his team have the advantage of coming prepared to a situation that has already developed where we have lots more awareness.

(I'm assuming you meant hold, not hope, so corrected that)

Couldn't be said better.  I would also add that Biden vigorously campaigned on having a plan to nip the virus in the bud saying that Trump had no plan. So now we're all waiting for that plan to be publicized and implemented.

Offline S209

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #813 on: November 08, 2020, 08:02:27 PM »
That's why I didn't say "nobody", I said I don't know how many because I knew someone would mention the Danish. What percentage of the world population are they? I'm just saying there aren't too many and you'd be hard pressed not to agree. Majority of the world population are not thrilled with the response to COVID-19.
China, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Vietnam, Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Norway, Iceland, the UAE.. it’s a big world out there and many countries handled this remarkably well. Unfortunately, the US comes in at the very bottom of the barrel in nearly every metric.

Much of that might have been mazel and out of Trump’s hands, but some of the blame lies squarely with him. Remember, we are a country that prides ourselves in being the biggest and best at most things, including the size/strength of our military, our GDP, our medical and educational infrastructures, etc.
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Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #814 on: November 08, 2020, 08:15:23 PM »
China, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Vietnam, Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Norway, Iceland, the UAE.. it’s a big world out there and many countries handled this remarkably well. Unfortunately, the US comes in at the very bottom of the barrel in nearly every metric.

Do you really believe that the citizens of all these countries are thrilled with their responses? I'm not going to go through each of them but suffice it to say its just not true and I'll just point out 2 countries. You know good and well the Chinese wouldn't be applauding their leader had they not been forced to do so in communist regime style?

As far as Australia, yes they may have kept the count very low, however I personally know people living there who have told me how unhappy most citizens are with how the economy is getting busted and would have much preferred not such a harsh lockdown. The bottom line is that its not possible to have a complete lockdown to keep the virus out while still keeping your economy going as if nothing ever happened. Its one or the other and either way there will be people who like the plan as well as people who don't.

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #815 on: November 08, 2020, 08:23:40 PM »

There was talk yesterday or today of SI neighborhoods with uptick, what are the rates there? They weren't going to be put in any zone, just have increased testing and awareness. So I'm curious what the rates are over there.

Offline S209

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #816 on: November 08, 2020, 08:57:44 PM »
Do you really believe that the citizens of all these countries are thrilled with their responses? I'm not going to go through each of them but suffice it to say its just not true and I'll just point out 2 countries. You know good and well the Chinese wouldn't be applauding their leader had they not been forced to do so in communist regime style?

As far as Australia, yes they may have kept the count very low, however I personally know people living there who have told me how unhappy most citizens are with how the economy is getting busted and would have much preferred not such a harsh lockdown. The bottom line is that its not possible to have a complete lockdown to keep the virus out while still keeping your economy going as if nothing ever happened. Its one or the other and either way there will be people who like the plan as well as people who don't.
I’m not sure you’re right about China. I believe most Chinese citizens wholeheartedly buy in to the system, but I could be wrong.

As for Australia, while you might know a few people (who are probably frum and share the majority view prevalent on this forum) who are unhappy, from the start of COVID the PM has gone from record low approval ratings (37%) to being just about the most popular sitting PM in Australian history (70% approval for most of the pandemic).
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Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #817 on: November 08, 2020, 09:18:11 PM »
I’m not sure you’re right about China. I believe most Chinese citizens wholeheartedly buy in to the system, but I could be wrong.

Then you've never been to China. Or Hong Kong. Have been to both pre-pandemic more times than I can count.

In any case, I'm happy to let you have the last word as I don't really see the point in arguing about this. Its one of those times we'll agree to disagree :).

(And anyway its probably the wrong thread to have this argument.)

Offline S209

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #818 on: November 08, 2020, 09:56:57 PM »
Then you've never been to China. Or Hong Kong. Have been to both pre-pandemic more times than I can count.

In any case, I'm happy to let you have the last word as I don't really see the point in arguing about this. Its one of those times we'll agree to disagree :).

(And anyway its probably the wrong thread to have this argument.)
As I said I could be wrong but I’m not sure what bearing the amount of times either of us have visited would have on this discussion. At least officially, Chinese citizens are overwhelming supportive of the administration and its response to COVID, and I believe that’s true as well of US citizens who are originally from China.

Did you see what I posted about Australia?
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Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Deblasio Shutting 9 ZIP Codes Again
« Reply #819 on: November 08, 2020, 10:06:19 PM »
As I said I could be wrong but I’m not sure what bearing the amount of times either of us have visited would have on this discussion. At least officially, Chinese citizens are overwhelming supportive of the administration and its response to COVID, and I believe that’s true as well of US citizens who are originally from China.

Knowing the Chinese mentality quite well I take everything I read about them on a public site with a grain of salt. A huge one.

Did you see what I posted about Australia?

Yes I did and accept, thus no comment :).

I will add regarding your comment that the US response was towards the bottom of the list, that that has a whole lot more to do with the rules and regulations put into place by state and local officials than it has to do with the federal officials and/or president who didn't really have the power to set the responses for each individual state. They all chose their own paths give or take.