Author Topic: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?  (Read 13300 times)

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #80 on: October 06, 2020, 09:42:22 PM »
Much like the Moderna one is.
Sure, it could be, but the idea that we may not have one is far from not likely.
As much as you don't want to believe it, there is overwhelming evidence that they are effective.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Online etech0

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #81 on: October 06, 2020, 09:43:52 PM »
What happens once the vaccine is "available"? When will the powers that be decide that enough of the population is vaccinated to warrant removing lockdown / other restrictions?
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #82 on: October 06, 2020, 09:45:23 PM »
What happens once the vaccine is "available"? When will the powers that be decide that enough of the population is vaccinated to warrant removing lockdown / other restrictions?
I would say a matter of a few months.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline avromie7

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #83 on: October 06, 2020, 09:47:10 PM »
What happens once the vaccine is "available"? When will the powers that be decide that enough of the population is vaccinated to warrant removing lockdown / other restrictions?
As soon as they vaccinate enough people (late 2021 the earliest), they'll say this/these vaccine(s) are not effective enough, we have a few better vaccines in development that will be available within the next 2-5 years.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline avromie7

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #84 on: October 06, 2020, 09:47:37 PM »
I would say a matter of a few months.
Not a chance.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline S209

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #85 on: October 06, 2020, 09:48:02 PM »
Masks? SD? small gatherings...

I didn’t say we always need masks, although it wouldn’t be a bad idea, but yes smaller gatherings and some situational social distancing, is that really so devastating? Reread what I wrote about times when the virus isn’t prevalent or rising.

in March I suggested locking up the vulnerable for a month, 4 weeks no human contact, the hospitals could easily handle the ones we didn't know were vulnerable, and the known vulnerable who weren't protected properly. During that time the young and healthy should hug, kiss, and mingle to their hearts content, and really spread the thing, and from there ease back in. Why ease back in, and not straight heavy?
In case it wasn't spread well all over, and there are minor upticks still and the previously locked up vulnerable get ill.
Besides for the potential damage you may be inflicting on those not deemed vulnerable, and the still very high human cost, it would take far longer than 4 weeks to act on such a scheme. In the scenario you are proposing it is also far from guaranteed (in fact, more likely not than yes) that nearly enough people will become infected to grant herd immunity in one fell swoop (remember, measles requires population 95% immunity!), not to mention new people joining the ranks of the vulnerable all the time. That would just mean constantly allowing the virus to move through the population. Takes your problems with other plans and just exacerbates them.

You’re also placing quite the burden on those protecting the vulnerable, as when a virus is majorly prevalent in a society it has a way of finding itself into places it isn’t supposed to. How exactly are you guaranteeing zero entry into the hiding places of the vulnerable?

you implied tests alone, without the other 2 solutions you mentioned. To which I asked, if the tests are all you have, everyone will have it eventually with no treatment, so what do tests help?
What makes you think everyone will have it eventually? If, as I outlined twice already, rigorous testing (and tracing and mitigation) could keep the virus completely at bay there is no reason to assume all or most people will ever get infected, or, for that matter, ever come in contact with the virus.

The fastest vaccine ever developed took 4 years, and that wasn't a novel virus, with Mumps there was already plenty to work with when they started, why is it reasonable to say this one will take 1/4 of that amount of time?
How did breaking records by 3 years become the more likely scenario?

Besides, those inside (Fauci, Gates) have changed their tones, they now say we will know by December "if an effective vaccine is possible" clearly they have a reason to believe a vaccine may not be effective.

Source? Fauci actually mentioned this week that he expects a vaccine this year, possibly this month.

There are already vaccines in use by world powers and final stage trials nearly complete around the world. The question isn’t “if” a vaccine will be created. It’s when it will be deemed sufficiently safe and effective, and when it will be mass produced and distributed.

Covid viruses were previously hard to create a vaccine for, hence why we have no common cold vaccines.
I assume you mean coronaviruses, but this isn’t true. We don’t have a common cold vaccine because it isn’t sufficiently dangerous to have a market big enough to warrant it.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Online aygart

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #86 on: October 06, 2020, 09:50:24 PM »

If you're disagreeing with the CDCs assessment, by all means.

Not sure what the second question is.

You can throw appeals to authority in, but I have no issue at all disagreeing with anyone and everyone if I have the evidence to back it up. Literally everyone on this forum can attest that I have no problem taking unpopular opinions and disareeing with everyone on all sides. Either way, if you want to use the CDC you will need to bring the quote and context as well as demonstrate its relevance. Without that it is just blather that any half-wit fool can repeat from the other half-wit Hannitty or his ilk on either side of the political spectrum.

You wrote 2 paragraphs and I responded to each in its own paragraph. Not sure why you are having difficulty understanding what is a reply to which question here.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline S209

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #87 on: October 06, 2020, 09:51:24 PM »
What happens once the vaccine is "available"? When will the powers that be decide that enough of the population is vaccinated to warrant removing lockdown / other restrictions?
As soon as they vaccinate enough people (late 2021 the earliest), they'll say this/these vaccine(s) are not effective enough, we have a few better vaccines in development that will be available within the next 2-5 years.
I was under the impression we were talking about our communities. I don’t know what the powers that be would do but it’s certainly reasonable to expect that to happen in a few months. Some restrictions may last forever.
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Online etech0

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #88 on: October 06, 2020, 09:52:24 PM »
I'm asking both about the government and also about local / community "powers that be"
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline S209

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #89 on: October 06, 2020, 09:54:18 PM »
I'm asking both about the government and also about local / community "powers that be"
When a vaccine is in wide circulation it’s pretty clear that what minimal restrictions there are in place on a communal level will be lifted
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Online etech0

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #90 on: October 06, 2020, 09:56:58 PM »
When a vaccine is in wide circulation it’s pretty clear that what minimal restrictions there are in place on a communal level will be lifted
While I am in agreement on that, there is room to argue on the definition of "wide circulation".
It's the government that seems more likely to have a response to the tune of:

they'll say this/these vaccine(s) are not effective enough, we have a few better vaccines in development that will be available within the next 2-5 years.
Workflowy. You won't know what you're missing until you try it.

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #91 on: October 06, 2020, 11:44:55 PM »
You can throw appeals to authority in, but I have no issue at all disagreeing with anyone and everyone if I have the evidence to back it up. Literally everyone on this forum can attest that I have no problem taking unpopular opinions and disareeing with everyone on all sides. Either way, if you want to use the CDC you will need to bring the quote and context as well as demonstrate its relevance. Without that it is just blather that any half-wit fool can repeat from the other half-wit Hannitty or his ilk on either side of the political spectrum.

You wrote 2 paragraphs and I responded to each in its own paragraph. Not sure why you are having difficulty understanding what is a reply to which question here.
I quoted it above.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline zh cohen

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #92 on: October 07, 2020, 03:14:36 AM »
When the curve is flattened and we don't have to worry about hospitals being overwhelmed it’s pretty clear that restrictions there are in place on a communal level will be lifted

FTFY.

Offline Afrages6

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #93 on: October 07, 2020, 07:23:30 AM »
When a vaccine is in wide circulation it’s pretty clear that what minimal restrictions there are in place on a communal level will be lifted
Unfortunately I don’t believe that will be the case. We will see in April 2021 if the legislature grants an extension to Cuomo’s powers, if they do then this may never end. Cuomo loves his masks

Offline yelped

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #94 on: October 07, 2020, 08:42:25 AM »
I quoted it above.
I'm surprised by you. Is it really so difficult to have some small adjustments for a year or so to save lives? Are young people so self centered these days that they can't fathom some small inconvenience for the sake of the greater good? Is this the generation we have raised?

This is not directed at you, you just triggered this response.

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #95 on: October 07, 2020, 09:05:50 AM »
I'm surprised by you. Is it really so difficult to have some small adjustments for a year or so to save lives? Are young people so self centered these days that they can't fathom some small inconvenience for the sake of the greater good? Is this the generation we have raised?

This is not directed at you, you just triggered this response.
Did you even read the argument?
I'm surprised at the arrogance of all the guys who take this argument.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline yelped

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #96 on: October 07, 2020, 09:11:20 AM »
Did you even read the argument?
I'm surprised at the arrogance of all the guys who take this argument.
Yes, along with everyone else, I'm having a hard time understanding what you want, besides for wanting to avoid inconveniencing yourself.

Offline yelped

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #97 on: October 07, 2020, 09:12:24 AM »
I'm surprised by you. Is it really so difficult to have some small adjustments for a year or so to save lives? Are young people so self centered these days that they can't fathom some small inconvenience for the sake of the greater good? Is this the generation we have raised?

This is not directed at you, you just triggered this response.
Apparently, we now have our own Al Sharpton and have raised a generation of uneducated mobs.

Offline Lurker

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #98 on: October 07, 2020, 09:14:40 AM »
Apparently, we now have our own Al Sharpton and have raised a generation of uneducated mobs.

Tischler is no Al Sharpton. The man is a clown with no real clout.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: What a Chilul Hashem. Anyone else watching Cuomo's Press Conf?
« Reply #99 on: October 07, 2020, 09:15:18 AM »
Yes, along with everyone else, I'm having a hard time understanding what you want, besides for wanting to avoid inconveniencing yourself.
Did I write even once that I was inconvenienced?
I wrote about effectiveness.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch