Author Topic: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests  (Read 45696 times)

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #220 on: October 08, 2020, 10:36:44 PM »
Defending the mosrim is just as bad as defending the beating.
I'm not defending them. I have no idea what they did or why they did it.

My complaints is mob justice isn't justice. It's a lynching. Nobody made Heshey Tiechler judge, jury, and r"l, executioner.

Offline Yitz

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #221 on: October 08, 2020, 10:37:23 PM »
Why would he go to the demonstration if people are upset at him.

Offline TimT

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #222 on: October 08, 2020, 10:40:03 PM »
Why would he go to the demonstration if people are upset at him.
Read upthread

Offline yungermanchik

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #223 on: October 08, 2020, 10:40:31 PM »
I'm not defending them. I have no idea what they did or why they did it.
I would call the police if I witnessed a shul in clear violation of the law.
?
Small people talk about other people.
Average people talk about things
BIG PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IDEAS.

Online avromie7

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #224 on: October 08, 2020, 10:40:44 PM »
Why would he go to the demonstration if people are upset at him.
To cause trouble.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline Mf1

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #225 on: October 08, 2020, 10:47:27 PM »
Its a great editorial but it should have included the directives from the Torah leaders they are rightly saying we should turn to.
True

Offline Mf1

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #226 on: October 08, 2020, 10:48:10 PM »
Unless that's for the next editorial...

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #227 on: October 08, 2020, 10:49:52 PM »
?
That was a Psak I received months ago during the  April peak, and I have no idea if it would be applicable now. As I said, I don't know the metziyus of what these individuals did.

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #228 on: October 08, 2020, 10:52:48 PM »
That was a Psak I received months ago during the  April peak, and I have no idea if it would be applicable now. As I said, I don't know the metziyus of what these individuals did.

Without knowing the metziyus (which I don't either), please realize that whatever it is it ain't so kosher or pure or holy.

Plus they are surely not following any Psak.

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #229 on: October 08, 2020, 10:53:42 PM »
Unless that's for the next editorial...

Maybe. Keep us posted if you see one  :).

Online aygart

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #230 on: October 08, 2020, 10:57:28 PM »
People who try to rouse rabble shouldn't be shocked when the rabble is roused.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Lurker

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #231 on: October 08, 2020, 11:01:57 PM »
People who try to rouse rabble shouldn't be shocked when the rabble is roused.

I don't think the rabble rouser is shocked. I think he thinks he's gonna get elected to something.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Online aygart

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #232 on: October 08, 2020, 11:03:44 PM »
I don't think the rabble rouser is shocked. I think he thinks he's gonna get elected to something.
There were 3
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #233 on: October 08, 2020, 11:06:44 PM »
I find it hard to believe that the leader of the mob is acting le shem shamayim.

https://gothamist.com/news/orthodox-heshy-tischler-campaign-covid-denial-borough-park

This is the absolute last thing that's needed. I can't imagine a single posek of stature is supportive of this.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 11:16:42 PM by shaulyaakov »

Offline Lurker

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  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #234 on: October 08, 2020, 11:08:51 PM »
There were 3

Were any of them shocked?
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #235 on: October 08, 2020, 11:49:21 PM »
Without knowing the metziyus (which I don't either)
....
they are surely not following any Psak.

::)
Visibly Jewish

Offline yuneeq

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #236 on: October 09, 2020, 01:48:36 AM »
There are no 2 sides. This is a jihadi mob and that's it.

Exhibit A:
https://twitter.com/martin_samoylov/status/1313706820846968842

Exhibit B:
"After roughing up Kornbluh, members of the group encircled and threatened an ABC-7 news crew."
https://gothamist.com/news/orthodox-heshy-tischler-campaign-covid-denial-borough-park
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Online Yehuda57

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Offline Happyguy

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #238 on: October 09, 2020, 04:52:21 AM »
Defending the mosrim is just as bad as defending the beating.

Many Poskim (Shach, Aruch HaShulchan) hold that the whole Issur of mesira only applies to a non-fair society that would treat Jew differently but in a democratic system like the US there is no mesira as the whole Issur was made when Jews would get harsher punishments than a non-Jew.

Furthermore all Poskim agree that when someone is endangering the public (Metza'arei Harabim) and doesn't heed to instruction it is mutar to inform.

I am not a Posek but it seems as if they have some halachic basis to support themselves with to inform. If an actual Posek would say otherwise then fine. But to label them as a moser without backing is totally wrong unless they have which i am unaware of.

This is arguably the case here.

Based on your great halachik knowledge, one would think you would have many poskim advocating mesirah.

R' Chaim Kanievsky advocated this in Bnei Brak (or the whole EY as well - slightly unclear from the letter)


Of course there is makom to say it was mutar to do, whether that’s the clear Halacha or not. And there were certainly Rabbanim allowing/advocating it. If people are not even allowed to speak out against da’as Torah which allows something they feel is dangerous (something we hear a lot around here), why should a mob be able to exact vengeance on someone who did something that *their* da’as Torah feels is acceptable/praiseworthy? There is zero equivalence, period.

Have I missed something or is there just something which you're not telling me? We need a Posek to tell us that this is called mesira. Why are you so adamant that it is?


Offline Avrumi#1

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #239 on: October 09, 2020, 05:55:09 AM »
Have I missed something or is there just something which you're not telling me? We need a Posek to tell us that this is called mesira. Why are you so adamant that it is?


This is the photographer:
https://nypost.com/2020/10/07/photographer-was-terrified-of-orthodox-jewish-protesters-beating-him/

Out of all the protests I’ve been to I’ve never seen this level of violence from protesters toward ....anyone for that matter

https://twitter.com/nypdnews/status/1283439743028662275?lang=en

Is this person in any way seeking to be honest, or is he simply seeking to besmirch Jews. Go ahead and judge him favorably and judge the Frum Jews unfavorably. Good luck.

I'm not qualified to call him a moser, but the photographer is not just an innocent guy out there doing his job. Defending the photographer as some "inncoent" is just as bad as beating him.