Author Topic: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests  (Read 22776 times)

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #340 on: October 12, 2020, 10:24:33 PM »
As wrong as he is, I’ll defend to the end his right to walk the streets without being attacked.

If he walks quietly...

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #341 on: October 12, 2020, 10:28:00 PM »
If he walks quietly...
He can even yell as loud as he wants. Nobody is allowed to threaten or touch him.
Just so happens he was walking quietly.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #342 on: October 13, 2020, 07:08:25 AM »
So can we please stop defending him? Even if what was done to him was wrong, I don't think he deserves to be defended.
So in your book if somebody is wrong it’s OK to lie about them?
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline yuneeq

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #343 on: October 13, 2020, 08:03:29 AM »
So in your book if somebody is wrong it’s OK to lie about them?

When you see Heshy & co blatantly lie about Kornbluh and Getz when there’s explicit video showing exactly otherwise, it makes you wonder what else they’re lying about.

On a different note, I asked a Heshy zombie why he supported a protest that beats up random reporters not named Getz/Kornbluh, and like others he says they walked into the lions den, it was coming to them. Apparently a journalist covering a public PROTEST which is literally meant to gain media attention is considered taboo because they might give it a negative spin.

His lions den analogy- that they’re uncontrollable wild animals - actually makes sense.
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Offline iluv2travel

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #344 on: October 13, 2020, 12:14:15 PM »
So in your book if somebody is wrong it’s OK to lie about them?

So now its ok to put words into my mouth? Where did I say it's ok to lie? I wasn't aware that not defending him equals lying.

I think everyone on here knows full well that the guy has less than holy intentions with whatever he does (to put it mildly).  I'll say it again: No, he cannot and should not be attacked by anyone. But as I've said previously as well, 2 wrongs don't make a right and I personally wouldn't defend either side here.

Offline Happyguy

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #345 on: October 13, 2020, 12:29:19 PM »
So now its ok to put words into my mouth? Where did I say it's ok to lie? I wasn't aware that not defending him equals lying.

I think everyone on here knows full well that the guy has less than holy intentions with whatever he does (to put it mildly).  I'll say it again: No, he cannot and should not be attacked by anyone. But as I've said previously as well, 2 wrongs don't make a right and I personally wouldn't defend either side here.

1) Violence is never ok. Period.
2) What Kornbluh did may or may not have been wrong. Was it mesira? IDK. I'm not getting involved. And for a few ppl to decide by themselves that it is mesira is also totally wrong.
So its one possible wrong against two definite wrongs. Guess whose side I'm going to take ::) ::)

Offline chinagel

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #346 on: October 13, 2020, 12:34:49 PM »
1) Violence is never ok. Period.
2) What Kornbluh did may or may not have been wrong. Was it mesira? IDK. I'm not getting involved. And for a few ppl to decide by themselves that it is mesira is also totally wrong.
So its one possible wrong against two definite wrongs. Guess whose side I'm going to take ::) ::)
Can someone explain why violence is never ok? Not talking about this specific instance, I know zero about it.
It sounds like one of these cliches everyone just repeats.


Offline iluv2travel

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #347 on: October 13, 2020, 12:38:43 PM »
1) Violence is never ok. Period.
2) What Kornbluh did may or may not have been wrong. Was it mesira? IDK. I'm not getting involved. And for a few ppl to decide by themselves that it is mesira is also totally wrong.
So its one possible wrong against two definite wrongs. Guess whose side I'm going to take ::) ::)

1)  Did you read my full post? Seems that perhaps not, so I'll repost my sentence that is totally congruent to your #1:  "No, he cannot and should not be attacked by anyone". I'm not sure why you felt the need yet again to bring this up when there is obviously a consensus on this.

2) I was not getting into if its mesira or not and never will. That's totally besides the point. But saying that he has pure and holy intentions (or inferring it) and that everything he does is to save people's lives (or inferring as much) is stretching it.

In this case I just wouldn't take any sides. But to each their own. Will leave it at that.  :)

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #348 on: October 13, 2020, 12:43:12 PM »
2) I was not getting into if its mesira or not and never will. That's totally besides the point. But saying that he has pure and holy intentions (or inferring it) and that everything he does is to save people's lives (or inferring as much) is stretching it.

In this case I just wouldn't take any sides. But to each their own. Will leave it at that.  :)

No one called him a tzaddik, but how do you know he doesn't mean well, even if he's wrong?

And telling people they shouldn't defend him here is taking a very clear side...
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Offline iluv2travel

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #349 on: October 13, 2020, 12:45:34 PM »
Can someone explain why violence is never ok? Not talking about this specific instance, I know zero about it.
It sounds like one of these cliches everyone just repeats.

Could be its just a cliche, but people shouldn't be taking the law into their own hands.

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #350 on: October 13, 2020, 12:46:32 PM »
And telling people they shouldn't defend him here is taking a very clear side...

I would tell them not to defend the other side either.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #351 on: October 13, 2020, 12:47:47 PM »
ESH
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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #352 on: October 13, 2020, 01:06:07 PM »
Can someone explain why violence is never ok? Not talking about this specific instance, I know zero about it.
It sounds like one of these cliches everyone just repeats.
I'm also not following this discussion and know nothing about the specific circumstances surrounding it (and I'm not a lawyer) but I would think violence is never ok because:

1. What @iluv2travel said.
2. Someone is believed to be innocent until proven guilty.
3. I think we believe in precise, calculated punishment assessed to be a fair punishment for a given crime. Violence is rarely (never?) precise or calculated.

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #353 on: October 13, 2020, 01:38:08 PM »
Can someone explain why violence is never ok?
The Torah tells us in Parshas Shemos
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Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

Offline Cocoronana

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #354 on: October 13, 2020, 02:58:24 PM »
This reminds me what Rashi says there on "אכן נודע הדבר"

Offline chinagel

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #355 on: October 13, 2020, 09:41:19 PM »
I'm also not following this discussion and know nothing about the specific circumstances surrounding it (and I'm not a lawyer) but I would think violence is never ok because:

1. What @iluv2travel said.
2. Someone is believed to be innocent until proven guilty.
3. I think we believe in precise, calculated punishment assessed to be a fair punishment for a given crime. Violence is rarely (never?) precise or calculated.
1. So violence is ok when legal?
2. So violence is ok when proven guilty?
3. So violence is ok, just must be in the right context?

My point is, everyone just repeats "violence bad" when in reality they only think that because they thought the victim didn't deserve it. Violence itself is sometimes the answer. If you think not in this case, that's fine. But it's not because "violence is never ok". Bad example, but everyone (I think) is fine with some terrorist financier getting his head blown off.
The Torah tells us in Parshas Shemos
Need I quote all the other cases in the torah where the "violent" person was a Tzaddik? Just look a few pesukim before.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #356 on: October 13, 2020, 09:49:57 PM »
If hug and got a choice of candy from the giant bowl on your favorite place to watch something like a mortgage with a friend. You can get the best home in about a year since we have to address it to keep people safe in the long run for you to tell us when you are asked to write about your business and how you can make money online to get a better idea of what you want.

Unless you are a few stories I think you are talking about the annual fee of your finances and soon you will be able to come give it a look and test it out for a walk. You will need to be better at following the steps in the process of finding a better provider for your health and wellness program.

I have a few questions for you about the lab that I have a joke in the world of the world of the world of the world of. It is a very good thing to do with the American people who have come to my life in the past days and I have never been to the same thing as I do you have a few minutes to discuss this with your friends.

I asked SwiftKey to FTFY.
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Offline chinagel

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #357 on: October 13, 2020, 09:53:04 PM »
I asked SwiftKey to FTFY.
No idea what swiftkey is and no idea what ur talking about. If you have no response, you don't need to respond.

Offline Happyguy

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #358 on: October 13, 2020, 11:25:24 PM »
1. So violence is ok when legal?
2. So violence is ok when proven guilty?
3. So violence is ok, just must be in the right context?

My point is, everyone just repeats "violence bad" when in reality they only think that because they thought the victim didn't deserve it. Violence itself is sometimes the answer. If you think not in this case, that's fine. But it's not because "violence is never ok". Bad example, but everyone (I think) is fine with some terrorist financier getting his head blown off. Need I quote all the other cases in the torah where the "violent" person was a Tzaddik? Just look a few pesukim before.

Let me clarify. The Torah advocates capital punishment. However, this is only when there are 2 Eidim, it has been ruled by Beis Din etc.
Compare it to today where there are still some states which use the death penalty. This wouldn't be termed as violence rather as justice served.
A country or state which uses such measures after a fair and unbiased trial for a crime which would warrant such a punishment wouldn't be termed as violence. Individuals taking the law in their own hands would be termed as violence.

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Re: OSM (Our Shuls Matter) Protests
« Reply #359 on: October 13, 2020, 11:44:06 PM »
My point is, everyone just repeats "violence bad" when in reality they only think that because they thought the victim didn't deserve it. Violence itself is sometimes the answer. If you think not in this case, that's fine. But it's not because "violence is never ok".

You're questioning the clichéd use of a cliché on a board constantly critiqued for its lack of nuance. Good luck.
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