Czar Cuomo

[EliJelly]

Can we agree that shuls being closed doesn't mean the rules were being kept?

I'll be the last one to argue that. Just don't mention schools when I'm still so upset of their late reopening

[S209]

+1. I live in BP, went to D.C. for chol hamoed and my family was practically the one wearing masks.

And what about in BP? You could have conveniently told us about your experience living in the place we are actually discussing. You’ve been there for the last 7 months, how do we stack up?

[drosenberg88429]

Let me clarify. Saying 99% were shut down for months is false. By Shavuos, every shul was packed, per reports here. That didn't happen overnight. There was chatter here starting already on Pesach about people ignoring violations, even if the shuls weren't officially open.

My point isn't to argue the little details. The point is, there has been widespread ignoring of the rules and regs for a very, very long time in our communities. We can take issue with the current situation without trying to whitewash our past misbehavior.

And yes, your take on the restrictions back then was quite on point.

In my recollection, it actually did happen basically overnight. The speed of going 0-60 from no shul to back to normal was astounding. This 0-60 instead of being able to handle phases and stages was what brought Israel into the thick of the storm too.

[Galitzyaner]

But to say it never shut down is wrong.

THIS is exactly the point.

Sheesh, you Covid police keep arguing irrelevant points. Cuomo never mentioned that they didn't SD or wear masks. He said they never closed! Which is the one big fat lie that should bother everyone.

Doesn't matter whether they closed for 3 weeks or 3 years. It's still a lie.

[Yehuda57]

You’re dead wrong. The mass noncompliance re: masks and SD in our community is unrivaled in the tri-State area. I live here and am around, like all of you.

Surreal that this is being argued honestly.

It's beyond insulting to hundreds of thousands of Jews who shut down their lives to have people now claim that they never did because of a few who didn't.

And again, if you are arguing that after the first wave there was no compliance, that is *exactly* what level headed people warned was going to happen if Cuomo didn't get off his power trip. He didn't, people ignored everything, now there's a second wave coinciding with the release of his book, and here we are.

Let me clarify. Saying 99% were shut down for months is false. By Shavuos, every shul was packed, per reports here. That didn't happen overnight. There was chatter here starting already on Pesach about people ignoring violations, even if the shuls weren't officially open.

My point isn't to argue the little details. The point is, there has been widespread ignoring of the rules and regs for a very, very long time in our communities. We can take issue with the current situation without trying to whitewash our past misbehavior.

And yes, your take on the restrictions back then was quite on point.

Shavuos is a full 7 weeks after Pesach. And by the time R"C Iyar came about, people were already in "we have herd immunity" mode. There was zero attempts to educate the community from NYC or NYS. There was zero outreach. All there was were restrictions, closing camps (which proved to be foolish and unscientific), and of course the double standards and hypocrisy with encouraging protests.

I tell you, it's a wonder no one wants to wear an uncomfortable mask when the guy with the worst record of dealing with covid in the world tells you to.

[S209]

In my recollection, it actually did happen basically overnight. The speed of going 0-60 from no shul to back to normal was astounding. This 0-60 instead of being able to handle phases and stages was what brought Israel into the thick of the storm too.

IIRC many here insisted there is no sense in going in phases, we must do all or nothing.

Nothing to see here..

[Lurker]

And how was it in other communities? In my Italian neighborhood I absolutely saw not an iota more of compliance than in BoroPark.

I don't know. From what I was told by family and friends in NY, plus what I saw online from blogs, the news, and DDF, compliance was much higher in the general public. Is that accurate? I don't know. Does it change the fact that rules on masks, gatherings, distancing, and closures were not kept in our community for the vast majority of the 7 months they've now been in place?

[RewardsAddict]

And what about in BP? You could have conveniently told us about your experience living in the place we are actually discussing. You’ve been there for the last 7 months, how do we stack up?

Honestly, it was terrible in the summer and before sukkos. Lately though, while not perfect, many more people are wearing masks. But my point was that BP is not the only place people arent wearing masks. Yes, many people in BP are non-compliant. But so are many people in many other places.

[Dan]

THIS is exactly the point.

Sheesh, you Covid police keep arguing irrelevant points. Cuomo never mentioned that they didn't SD or wear masks. He said they never closed! Which is the one big fat lie that should bother everyone.

Doesn't matter whether they closed for 3 weeks or 3 years. It's still a lie.

I don't disagree at all, but why can't we argue this honestly?

[KSMH]

There were plenty of reports here of shuls and schools in BP/Willi opening after a few weeks off. @hvaces42 offered some real time reports of him fighting with them at the time IIRC.
But to say it never shut down is wrong.

That still doesn't justify saying Ultra were never following rules.

Ultra doesn't stop in BP or willi, it continues throughout Rockland, Queens, Far Rockaway and many more areas. Ultra jews live in 10's of locals. Calling out communities in whole instead of individuals is problematic. Its a deblasio replay.
Does anyone remember how fast mass outdoor gatherings became ok? I do. And deblasio attending one himself.

The Czar words are reckless at best.

Every community has non compliance, those living in a bliss doesn't change facts. I believe there were reports of major house partying in the Bronx every night, by some major health official.

Saying Ultra didn't follow rules from day one is crazy. Just because Ultra took a different path then the czars own later on, doesn't change the facts that most were following the rules.

Remember he said from "day one".

[S209]

It's beyond insulting to hundreds of thousands of Jews who shut down their lives to have people now claim that they never did because of a few who didn't.

I’m going to assume you literally did not read what I wrote in the post you responded to.

And again, if you are arguing that after the first wave there was no compliance, that is *exactly* what level headed people warned was going to happen if Cuomo didn't get off his power trip. He didn't, people ignored everything, now there's a second wave coinciding with the release of his book, and here we are.

There is mass compliance across the State. Just not in BP and Williamsburg. You are blaming Cuomo for something that extends to Yerushalayim and Lakewood.

Shavuos is a full 7 weeks after Pesach. And by the time R"C Iyar came about, people were already in "we have herd immunity" mode. There was zero attempts to educate the community from NYC or NYS. There was zero outreach. All there was were restrictions, closing camps (which proved to be foolish and unscientific), and of course the double standards and hypocrisy with encouraging protests.

Why didn’t anybody else need outreach? Why did other people manage to follow the rules?

I tell you, it's a wonder no one wants to wear an uncomfortable mask when the guy with the worst record of dealing with covid in the world tells you to.

Right right, if Cuomo says it also then that negates the doctors.


Please don’t leave DDF again just because we disagree

[Dan]

That still doesn't justify saying Ultra were never following rules.

Ultra doesn't stop in BP or willi, it continues throughout Rockland, Queens, Far Rockaway and many more areas. Ultra jews live in 10's of locals. Calling out communities in whole instead of individuals is problematic. Its a deblasio replay.
Does anyone remember how fast mass outdoor gatherings became ok? I do. And deblasio attending one himself.

The Czar words are reckless at best.

Every community has non compliance, those living in a bliss doesn't change facts. I believe there were reports of major house partying in the Bronx every night, by some major health official.

Saying Ultra didn't follow rules from day one is crazy. Just because Ultra took a different path then the czars own later on, doesn't change the facts that most were following the rules.

Remember he said from "day one".

Why are people jumping from posters saying to argue honestly to assuming people are defending Cuomo's remarks?

[drosenberg88429]

.

Shavuos is a full 7 weeks after Pesach. And by the time R"C Iyar came about, people were already in "we have herd immunity" mode. There was zero attempts to educate the community from NYC or NYS. There was zero outreach. All there was were restrictions, closing camps (which proved to be foolish and unscientific), and of course the double standards and hypocrisy with encouraging protests.

This is important. I personally think that Lag Baomer is a more accurate date than Shavuos (all shuls were opened the shabbos before Shavuos), that is still a solid 8 weeks from when the shuls closed. For historical context, George Floyd died May 25, the shabbos that shuls were opened for. The lack of enforcement by protests did not cause the shuls to reopen, but it certainly did lead people to view the restrictions with a lot more suspicion. Statistically speaking, basically the identical amount of people per 100k died in the frum zipcodes than the non Jewish zipcodes, so it's extremely difficult to blame the infection rate on our non compliance.

[S209]

Honestly, it was terrible in the summer and before sukkos. Lately though, while not perfect, many more people are wearing masks. But my point was that BP is not the only place people arent wearing masks. Yes, many people in BP are non-compliant. But so are many people in many other places.

Thanks for your honesty. How does your experience in BP stack up with your experience in any other single community in NY? Is it crazy to say we’ve been by far the least complaint?

If it’s not, why did you agree with a comment that suggested otherwise?

[Galitzyaner]

I don't disagree at all, but why can't we argue this honestly?

I think all agree that from some time after Purim till at least Pesach, all major institutions shut down. That's all that matters per Cuomo's propaganda.

[Dan]

I think all agree that from some time after Purim till at least Pesach, all major institutions shut down. That's all that matters per Cuomo's propaganda.

OK, so make that argument. Certainly makes it stronger.

[Lurker]

Shavuos is a full 7 weeks after Pesach. And by the time R"C Iyar came about, people were already in "we have herd immunity" mode. There was zero attempts to educate the community from NYC or NYS. There was zero outreach. All there was were restrictions, closing camps (which proved to be foolish and unscientific), and of course the double standards and hypocrisy with encouraging protests.

I tell you, it's a wonder no one wants to wear an uncomfortable mask when the guy with the worst record of dealing with covid in the world tells you to.

Shuls were open before Shavuos, and there were plenty of minyanim with no SD, masks, and kiddushim well before then. Just because the shul was closed, doesn't mean we were keeping the rules. Hence our conversation at the end of April. But again, let's forget the details.

Your point about Cuomo won't be argued here. It does leave me scratching my head, though. The title of this thread is Czar Cuomo. We clearly understand who and what we are dealing with. Why then do we insist on arguing with everything he says or does like there's a toeles here? Why the pushback? He's a czar. He needs his ego stroked, his duty paid, and his subjects cowed. Give him what he wants for a minute and get on with life.

[KSMH]

With his front yard minyan

Yeah, he didn't Ike it, doesn't mean someone following government rules.

Not sure who leiber is, but there was always 10k people there, check "Der Yid"....

Yeah, I was always wondering were the media gets their facts from....

There were *some* places that didn't shut down. Same for every demographic.
And his real time reports were of street minyanim in front of his front door

Yeah outdoor was the problem then, remember  but indoor rarely anyone had.

Again for the 100th time, Czar Coumo keeps saying Ultra didn't follow rules from day one.

First  for Williamsburg and  we said its only them, them they came for boro Park and we said its only the hasidic then they came for the ULTRA and we said its only ULTRA.... the story doesn't end well.


A simple comparison is twitter.com. first shut down Alex Jones then, Laura lumer... then silence the president but its only..... and them the 3rd largest newspaper in the us.... [ per reports].


History repeats itself..

[S209]

THIS is exactly the point.

Sheesh, you Covid police keep arguing irrelevant points. Cuomo never mentioned that they didn't SD or wear masks. He said they never closed! Which is the one big fat lie that should bother everyone.

Doesn't matter whether they closed for 3 weeks or 3 years. It's still a lie.

I’m fairly certain there is not a single poster on here who has defended or agrees with what Cuomo said. But please be honest. No need to lie to call him out.

Side point: Did he really say those words “they never closed”? All I saw was that he said they never followed the rules. Can you post?

[KSMH]

Why are people jumping from posters saying to argue honestly to assuming people are defending Cuomo's remarks?

People here are defending the basis for his criticism, which is utterly false on many levels.