Author Topic: Czar Cuomo  (Read 154543 times)

Offline VacationLover

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #140 on: October 17, 2020, 11:18:50 PM »
I live in BP. My boys and girls had no school for at least 3 month. It started again right after Shvaous quietly in basements with only half of the kids every second day.

Regular school started only at the beginning of the summer/day camp.

For a average family in willi / BP, considering the amount of kids at home in a tiny appartment was just impossible. There was no 2 ways about it. Either school for the kids and shuls open to socialize, or a definit nervous break down and long term trauma for the kids.

@Lurker I understand you live OOT. Please don't judge us by saying we were not complying at the beginning, when in fact we did and we started opening after the staying home situation was just not possible anymore, and that was after the administrators consulted with Doctor's and health professionals.

Offline S209

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #141 on: October 17, 2020, 11:21:36 PM »
People here are defending the basis for his criticism, which is utterly false on many levels.
Explain? None of your posts yet have made a substantive claim that his criticism is utterly false on many levels.

Certainly it was a terrible thing to say and is not the whole truth. But there are morsels of truth there that you are denying which detracts from your argument.
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #142 on: October 17, 2020, 11:22:54 PM »
I live in BP. My boys and girls had no school for at least 3 month. It started again right after Shvaous quietly in basements with only half of the kids every second day.

Regular school started only at the beginning of the summer/day camp.

For a average family in willi / BP, considering the amount of kids at home in a tiny appartment was just impossible. There was no 2 ways about it. Either school for the kids and shuls open to socialize, or a definit nervous break down and long term trauma for the kids.

@Lurker I understand you live OOT. Please don't judge us by saying we were not complying at the beginning, when in fact we did and we started opening after the staying home situation was just not possible anymore, and that was after the administrators consulted with Doctor's and health professionals.
I respect the struggle. It would help if the frum community would embrace the less costly interventions like masks. There are probably a billion people in the world who wear a mask every day now. We can do it in shuls.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Galitzyaner

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #143 on: October 17, 2020, 11:23:08 PM »
Side point: Did he really say those words “they never closed”? All I saw was that he said they never followed the rules. Can you post?
I'm almost sure I heard him discussing it on more than one recent occasion. I wasn't quoting directly, but his point clearly is not about the mask wearing, he was referring to the institutions shutting down. Listen to his full discussions. I haven't memorized them and their dates.

Offline S209

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #144 on: October 17, 2020, 11:23:22 PM »
I live in BP. My boys and girls had no school for at least 3 month. It started again right after Shvaous quietly in basements with only half of the kids every second day.

Regular school started only at the beginning of the summer/day camp.

For a average family in willi / BP, considering the amount of kids at home in a tiny appartment was just impossible. There was no 2 ways about it. Either school for the kids and shuls open to socialize, or a definit nervous break down and long term trauma for the kids.

@Lurker I understand you live OOT. Please don't judge us by saying we were not complying at the beginning, when in fact we did and we started opening after the staying home situation was just not possible anymore, and that was after the administrators consulted with Doctor's and health professionals.
Do you see how based exclusively upon your post leaving aside all of your justifications and rationales one could easily make the claim that you have not been following the rules for a while?
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Offline RewardsAddict

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #145 on: October 17, 2020, 11:24:05 PM »
Thanks for your honesty. How does your experience in BP stack up with your experience in any other single community in NY? Is it crazy to say we’ve been by far the least complaint?

If it’s not, why did you agree with a comment that suggested otherwise?
Were you in Manhattan during any BLM protests? Were they any better than BP/Willy? If not, why doesnt anyone call them out  either? Im not saying we are being good about masks. But to say only in BP and Willy people arent wearing masks? Thats wrong too.

Offline S209

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #146 on: October 17, 2020, 11:25:24 PM »
I'm almost sure I heard him discussing it on more than one recent occasion. I wasn't quoting directly, but his point clearly is not about the mask wearing, he was referring to the institutions shutting down. Listen to his full discussions. I haven't memorized them and their dates.
I’m not sure you’re right. It’s quite likely he is referring to the blatant rule breaking he and others have consistently witnessed.

If he actually said “never closed” then that changes things.
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Offline Euclid

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Czar Cuomo
« Reply #147 on: October 17, 2020, 11:25:26 PM »
These types of debates (of the past 100 or so posts) are exactly why 100% remote/WFH work will never become the norm. This "argument" would be settled in like 3 minutes if everyone was sitting in the same room, and nuance, tone, and body language wouldn't be missed.

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #148 on: October 17, 2020, 11:27:13 PM »
He's a control freak, and a narcissist, and a bully, but he's not an anti Semite. We can learn to deal with his idiosyncracies and work with him. De blasio is a lame duck with no future. Cuomo is not. Calling him out on all his lies may win a battle or two, but it won't win a war.

Offline S209

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #149 on: October 17, 2020, 11:27:50 PM »
Were you in Manhattan during any BLM protests? Were they any better than BP/Willy? If not, why doesnt anyone call them out  either? Im not saying we are being good about masks. But to say only in BP and Willy people arent wearing masks? Thats wrong too.
Really don’t want to do this again, but: Show me a photo of the [outdoor] protests in NY without a majority of the participants wearing masks?

Show me a photo of a [crowded, indoor, poorly ventilated] shtiebel in BP throughout with even a tiny minority of participants wearing masks?

Again, what is your response to the very direct question that I asked?
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Offline VacationLover

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #150 on: October 17, 2020, 11:28:49 PM »
I respect the struggle. It would help if the frum community would embrace the less costly interventions like masks. There are probably a billion people in the world who wear a mask every day now. We can do it in shuls.
a fully agree with you. I'm also very upset why we ended up in this situation when we could've and should've enforce strict rules. IMHO the blame is that there are no Rabbonim who have the power to enforce this, rather every Shul/ Chasidis/Mosid operates independently. Look at Antwerp were there is 1 Rav and 100% Compliance.

Offline S209

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #151 on: October 17, 2020, 11:30:03 PM »
a fully agree with you. I'm also very upset why we ended up in this situation when we could've and should've enforce strict rules.
EXACTLY
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Offline KSMH

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #152 on: October 17, 2020, 11:31:48 PM »
Always praying for delayed baggage.

Offline Euclid

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #153 on: October 17, 2020, 11:32:35 PM »
a fully agree with you. I'm also very upset why we ended up in this situation when we could've and should've enforce strict rules. IMHO the blame is that there are no Rabbonim who have the power to enforce this, rather every Shul/ Chasidis/Mosid operates independently. Look at Antwerp were there is 1 Rav and 100% Compliance.

@Dan for your OOT thread...

Offline Pupashtetl

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #154 on: October 17, 2020, 11:34:53 PM »
Everyone here will agree that Cuomo's remark was horrible, inexcusable, racist, and factually incorrect (the only disagreement is to which level it's incorrect).
Question: Where are our politicians supposedly representing us calling him out with outrage on this comment? Things like this give people like Heshy Tishler a following.

Offline S209

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #155 on: October 17, 2020, 11:35:45 PM »
Yet, its a Jewish problem.

https://twitter.com/hasidic_1/status/1317668109378048002
I can’t see in this video whether people are wearing masks but I’m fairly certain they’re outdoors
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Offline KSMH

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #156 on: October 17, 2020, 11:37:06 PM »
I can’t see in this video whether people are wearing masks but I’m fairly certain they’re outdoors
Yeah, and all 6ft apart.
Always praying for delayed baggage.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #157 on: October 17, 2020, 11:38:04 PM »
a fully agree with you. I'm also very upset why we ended up in this situation when we could've and should've enforce strict rules. IMHO the blame is that there are no Rabbonim who have the power to enforce this, rather every Shul/ Chasidis/Mosid operates independently. Look at Antwerp were there is 1 Rav and 100% Compliance.
That's good to hear about Antwerp. Perhaps part of the issue is that where there is a specific, single leader, he in turn feels the full burden of responsibility to proactively preempt extreme measures. Fractured leadership is perhaps the greatest tragedy of Galus.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Lurker

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  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #158 on: October 17, 2020, 11:39:33 PM »
I live in BP. My boys and girls had no school for at least 3 month. It started again right after Shvaous quietly in basements with only half of the kids every second day.

Regular school started only at the beginning of the summer/day camp.

For a average family in willi / BP, considering the amount of kids at home in a tiny appartment was just impossible. There was no 2 ways about it. Either school for the kids and shuls open to socialize, or a definit nervous break down and long term trauma for the kids.

@Lurker I understand you live OOT. Please don't judge us by saying we were not complying at the beginning, when in fact we did and we started opening after the staying home situation was just not possible anymore, and that was after the administrators consulted with Doctor's and health professionals.

I think we agree, for the most part. I hope I didn't come across as saying no one kept anything, ever. That's not true. I'm just annoyed at people pretending that everyone kept everything for months, which is also not true. Cuomo's gross overreach and generalizations don't give us the right to absolve ourselves from our misdeeds. I just wish there was a little more accountability and ownership here. Pretending we are blameless hurts us.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #159 on: October 17, 2020, 11:40:42 PM »
I’m going to assume you literally did not read what I wrote in the post you responded to.


I did, but we're discussing different things. I say the vast majority shut down, you reply, "you're dead wrong, no one wore masks and SD"

Come on.


Why didn’t anybody else need outreach? Why did other people manage to follow the rules?



Other communities absolutely do get outreach. What do you think the daily pressers are for. Celebrities are used to spread messages, and local news, TV and other media is used to spread information. For the most part, our communities don't use those mediums, and I would wager you could you can find a correlation between compliance and those that do use those mediums.

Right right, if Cuomo says it also then that negates the doctors.

There are many, many doctors telling their patients that masks are useless in preventing the spread. Btw, I was the only person in my shul today with a mask. Believe me, that's far more uncomfortable than the mask itself.


Please don’t leave DDF again just because we disagree :)


It won't be because of the disagreements, but more because of the inanity.