Author Topic: Czar Cuomo  (Read 156856 times)

Offline KSMH

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #260 on: October 18, 2020, 01:48:50 AM »
@S209. Its a Jewish problem!

https://twitter.com/NYCSHERIFF/status/1317585097969881089

Close your eyes and live in a bliss.
Always praying for delayed baggage.

Offline mushkovits

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #261 on: October 18, 2020, 01:50:14 AM »
Really. Please provide one photo of a group of Italians entering a building with no masks on.
The block parties never stopped by me. Zero masks. Zero SD.
when the local Shul reopened with masks required, I was literally ashamed to walk to Shul on Shabbos. NONE of my neighbors wore masks.
No - the 20m NYS residents didn’t  all comply and no the ultra orthodox didn’t all not comply.

Offline Lurker

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  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #262 on: October 18, 2020, 01:52:10 AM »
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1317151750844014594.html

Probably the best rundown of the situation I've read so far. She does it honestly and without all the "extras."
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #263 on: October 18, 2020, 01:52:22 AM »
I’m afraid I don’t understand your response.

You were asking for a photo of a BP shtiebel with even a tiny minority wearing masks, which obviously means that you don't believe such a photo exists which in turn means there was zero mask compliance in BP shuls.

So @chff is asking where the spike in cases and deaths are from the not wearing masks or doing SD from May, June, etc? I think I asked a similar question somewhere but nobody seemed to have an answer....

The reality on the ground is that even with the current uptick in cases, it doesn't hold a candle to what the situation was like at the end of March when this place was fully locked down already for a few weeks. The current restrictions are draconian. Lakewood has a worse rate than us and the askanim keep saying how grateful they are that their governor is working with them instead of the opposite as is happening in other states ( and we all know which state they mean).

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #264 on: October 18, 2020, 01:57:50 AM »

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #265 on: October 18, 2020, 01:58:59 AM »
["-"]

Offline ah giten

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #266 on: October 18, 2020, 02:01:23 AM »
I'll be a beggar again. Can someone please copy/paste here?
TIA!
Amy, this is a lot more complex than you make it out to be.
 I'm going to try to explain our viewpoint, this will be long.
 
 1)  I don't think De Blasio or Cuomo hate Jews. I DO think that they are using us as pawns in their never-ending petty fight to show who has more control.
 
 (1     2) I know that their outrageous rhetoric & behavior is definitely causing an increase in anti semitism.
 There have already been a few incidents of harassment and violence that can be directly tied to their actions.
 (cont)      3) People act like Hassidic/Ultra Orthodox are stupid, anti-science, and don't care about anyone else.
 We are not. Our community includes brilliant people, medical practitioners, mental health professionals, businessmen who've built empires on only a high school education.
 (cont)      Our resistance to certain things comes from a deeper place.
 
 4)  Our experiences through centuries have exile has ingrained in us not to rely on government to take care of us. It has taught us to use our own experts and common sense, especially when faced with extreme laws. (cont)      5) Now let's talk about how this impacted our reaction to Covid.
 On March 1, Cuomo announced the 1st confirmed case in NYC. He spent the next few days telling everyone they were worrying to much, the reality is reassuring, etc. bit.ly/3nORxzH      6) Cuomo attended a rally on March 3. He told us on March 6 “We have more people in this country dying from the flu than we have dying from coronavirus.”
 On March 7, he signed the 1st EO declaring a State of Emergency, yet on the 8th he STILL said not to worry, go on the subway      7) March 9-10 mark the holiday of Purim. There was some talk about maybe limiting gatherings in the Jewish community, but based on Cuomo's words, it was mostly waved off.
 Why interrupt our most joyous holiday for a virus Cuomo insisted wasn't bad?      8) After Purim, cases started EXPLODING in our community. And this was no surprise. We had just spent two days going from house to house, having crowded parties, the ultimate "super-spreader" events.
 
 So some schools and synagogues closed down even before De Blasio's orders.      9) From that time until the end of April, 95% of the community followed every restriction to a T. We stayed locked in our tiny apartments with our large families, our kids were doing PHONE school because many don't use home internet      9 (cont) - Young mothers made Passover at home for the first time because they couldn't go to their parents, something which is a HUGE undertaking, all with under-stocked stores. You literally had to comb the shelves for convection ovens.      9 (cont) All this while dealing with the severe anxiety and fear of hearing about new deaths of relatives, friends and acquaintances on a daily basis.      10) Then, as quickly as things had exploded, they quieted down. By May, there were barely any new cases in the community, and they soon dwindled to 0.
 
 Yet were any restrictions lifted? No. Not even outdoor public parks were permitted to reopen! Something that made no sense.      10 (cont) We begged to be allowed to open by zipcode. But Cuomo and DeBlasio refused. "Only by region, it can spread." (Sounds very different than the way they're talking now, huh?)      11) At this point, seeing that we were dealing with unreasonable people not acting based on science, we lost all trust in them.
 Families were suffering, kids were traumatized, businesses were collapsing - yet no changes were made.      12) Summer arrived and life went back to normal. Camps and day camps reopened, people went upstate - and still, there were no new cases.
 DESPITE the extreme laxity with mask wearing and social distancing.
 For the moment, at least, the virus was gone.      13) September came and cases started appearing again. This was the start of the long predicted "second wave". Yet this was very unlike the first wave.
 Cases were mild, there were very few hospitalizations.      14) Then suddenly, on Yom Kippur when we couldn't even listen to news, Cuomo announced the official uptick in cases (once again, weeks late - there had been an uptick for a long time already.)      14 (cont) People understood that things had changed, and there was a noticeable uptick in mask wearing and distancing in the community. But given the still low positivity rate, we saw no reason for panic and shutting down shuls and schools - which for us, are essential.      15) Then on October 6th, in middle of our holiday of Sukkos, Cuomo made his new EO creating deeply confusing and entirely unscientific color coded hot spots based on some logic only he seemed to understand.
 This order included a SPECIFIC houses of worship clause.      And this clause capped synagogue gatherings at 10, no matter the size of the building (some can seat thousands!)
 
 16)  On a call with community leaders, Cuomo admitted outright that this was a "fear driven response" not based on science      16 (cont) , and that schools were NOT the cause of the uptick.
 He also said, on that call, that synagogues would be capped at 50% capacity, and asked leaders to encourage compliance to masks and distancing. Of course everyone agreed to these reasonable sounding things.      17) Yet the very next day, he announced that there would be a limit of TEN in synagogues, and that schools would be closed.
 Despite the fact that he himself said schools weren't the problem! Despite what he had told leaders the day before!      17 (cont) To add insult to the injury, he kept publically pointing to us as the CAUSE of the uptick, despite the facts that there were upticks in many neighborhoods with no Orthodox Jewish presence.
 He made some outrageous, horrific remarks that echo ancient Jewish hate themes ImageImage      18) Don't forget that this is coming after a year in which we faced horrific attacks on our community. The machette attack in Monsey, tens of violent attacks on the streets of Brooklyn.
 Yet here goes Cuomo, once again putting a target on our backs.      18 (cont) This would be awful EVEN if his claims of this only being an "ultra-Orthodox cluster" were true - when it is patently false.
 
 Community leaders and elected officials begged Cuomo to reverse course, but he just doubled down and threatened to cut funding.      19) Now that it was clear what kind of attitude we were dealing with - that he was literally going to war with our community - we said, "No way are we letting him trample us. Time to fight back."
 
 Hence, the outcry you hear from us.      Here is one of the FIVE lawsuits filed this week against Cuomo. You'll get even more details about Cuomo's duplicitous, unconstitutional and hateful behavior.
 
          20201014_CAL_Congregation_Doc_1_Comp (1).pdf https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dWB-j_YQHHfC0HV00adImYW11egISObk/view     

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #267 on: October 18, 2020, 02:02:24 AM »
I'll be a beggar again. Can someone please copy/paste here?
TIA!

Quote
@mentions
Amy, this is a lot more complex than you make it out to be.
I'm going to try to explain our viewpoint, this will be long.

1) I don't think De Blasio or Cuomo hate Jews. I DO think that they are using us as pawns in their never-ending petty fight to show who has more control.

(1
@mentions
2) I know that their outrageous rhetoric & behavior is definitely causing an increase in anti semitism.
There have already been a few incidents of harassment and violence that can be directly tied to their actions.
(cont)
@mentions
3) People act like Hassidic/Ultra Orthodox are stupid, anti-science, and don't care about anyone else.
We are not. Our community includes brilliant people, medical practitioners, mental health professionals, businessmen who've built empires on only a high school education.
(cont)
@mentions
Our resistance to certain things comes from a deeper place.

4) Our experiences through centuries have exile has ingrained in us not to rely on government to take care of us. It has taught us to use our own experts and common sense, especially when faced with extreme laws. (cont)
@mentions
5) Now let's talk about how this impacted our reaction to Covid.
On March 1, Cuomo announced the 1st confirmed case in NYC. He spent the next few days telling everyone they were worrying to much, the reality is reassuring, etc. bit.ly/3nORxzH
@mentions
6) Cuomo attended a rally on March 3. He told us on March 6 “We have more people in this country dying from the flu than we have dying from coronavirus.”
On March 7, he signed the 1st EO declaring a State of Emergency, yet on the 8th he STILL said not to worry, go on the subway
@mentions
7) March 9-10 mark the holiday of Purim. There was some talk about maybe limiting gatherings in the Jewish community, but based on Cuomo's words, it was mostly waved off.
Why interrupt our most joyous holiday for a virus Cuomo insisted wasn't bad?
@mentions
8) After Purim, cases started EXPLODING in our community. And this was no surprise. We had just spent two days going from house to house, having crowded parties, the ultimate "super-spreader" events.

So some schools and synagogues closed down even before De Blasio's orders.
@mentions
9) From that time until the end of April, 95% of the community followed every restriction to a T. We stayed locked in our tiny apartments with our large families, our kids were doing PHONE school because many don't use home internet
@mentions
9 (cont) - Young mothers made Passover at home for the first time because they couldn't go to their parents, something which is a HUGE undertaking, all with under-stocked stores. You literally had to comb the shelves for convection ovens.
@mentions
9 (cont) All this while dealing with the severe anxiety and fear of hearing about new deaths of relatives, friends and acquaintances on a daily basis.
@mentions
10) Then, as quickly as things had exploded, they quieted down. By May, there were barely any new cases in the community, and they soon dwindled to 0.

Yet were any restrictions lifted? No. Not even outdoor public parks were permitted to reopen! Something that made no sense.
@mentions
10 (cont) We begged to be allowed to open by zipcode. But Cuomo and DeBlasio refused. "Only by region, it can spread." (Sounds very different than the way they're talking now, huh?)
@mentions
11) At this point, seeing that we were dealing with unreasonable people not acting based on science, we lost all trust in them.
Families were suffering, kids were traumatized, businesses were collapsing - yet no changes were made.
@mentions
12) Summer arrived and life went back to normal. Camps and day camps reopened, people went upstate - and still, there were no new cases.
DESPITE the extreme laxity with mask wearing and social distancing.
For the moment, at least, the virus was gone.
@mentions
13) September came and cases started appearing again. This was the start of the long predicted "second wave". Yet this was very unlike the first wave.
Cases were mild, there were very few hospitalizations.
@mentions
14) Then suddenly, on Yom Kippur when we couldn't even listen to news, Cuomo announced the official uptick in cases (once again, weeks late - there had been an uptick for a long time already.)
@mentions
14 (cont) People understood that things had changed, and there was a noticeable uptick in mask wearing and distancing in the community. But given the still low positivity rate, we saw no reason for panic and shutting down shuls and schools - which for us, are essential.
@mentions
15) Then on October 6th, in middle of our holiday of Sukkos, Cuomo made his new EO creating deeply confusing and entirely unscientific color coded hot spots based on some logic only he seemed to understand.
This order included a SPECIFIC houses of worship clause.
@mentions
And this clause capped synagogue gatherings at 10, no matter the size of the building (some can seat thousands!)

16) On a call with community leaders, Cuomo admitted outright that this was a "fear driven response" not based on science
@mentions
16 (cont) , and that schools were NOT the cause of the uptick.
He also said, on that call, that synagogues would be capped at 50% capacity, and asked leaders to encourage compliance to masks and distancing. Of course everyone agreed to these reasonable sounding things.
@mentions
17) Yet the very next day, he announced that there would be a limit of TEN in synagogues, and that schools would be closed.
Despite the fact that he himself said schools weren't the problem! Despite what he had told leaders the day before!
@mentions
17 (cont) To add insult to the injury, he kept publically pointing to us as the CAUSE of the uptick, despite the facts that there were upticks in many neighborhoods with no Orthodox Jewish presence.
He made some outrageous, horrific remarks that echo ancient Jewish hate themes
Image
Image
@mentions
18) Don't forget that this is coming after a year in which we faced horrific attacks on our community. The machette attack in Monsey, tens of violent attacks on the streets of Brooklyn.
Yet here goes Cuomo, once again putting a target on our backs.
@mentions
18 (cont) This would be awful EVEN if his claims of this only being an "ultra-Orthodox cluster" were true - when it is patently false.

Community leaders and elected officials begged Cuomo to reverse course, but he just doubled down and threatened to cut funding.
@mentions
19) Now that it was clear what kind of attitude we were dealing with - that he was literally going to war with our community - we said, "No way are we letting him trample us. Time to fight back."

Hence, the outcry you hear from us.
@mentions
Here is one of the FIVE lawsuits filed this week against Cuomo. You'll get even more details about Cuomo's duplicitous, unconstitutional and hateful behavior

Offline mushkovits

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #268 on: October 18, 2020, 02:02:38 AM »
Thanks for your honesty. How does your experience in BP stack up with your experience in any other single community in NY? Is it crazy to say we’ve been by far the least complaint?

If it’s not, why did you agree with a comment that suggested otherwise?
Stop hacking ah tshaynik!
How many communities have you been to? In the most likelihood you live in a Jewish community- I don’t.

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #269 on: October 18, 2020, 02:04:49 AM »
I can’t see in this video whether people are wearing masks but I’m fairly certain they’re outdoors

Outdoors obviously yes. Masks no. No SD either.

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #270 on: October 18, 2020, 02:07:03 AM »
Poor minyan in Bais Dovid that never has more then 10 people had 20 people this shabbos got slapped with a 15k fine ouch
["-"]

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #271 on: October 18, 2020, 02:08:48 AM »
I would think it's more about money though.

Based on what are you making that assumption?

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #272 on: October 18, 2020, 02:14:54 AM »
Based on what are you making that assumption?

Cuomo did threaten to pull funding of schools that operate so perhaps they don't want to lose that?

I think its more the threat of getting arrested? They don't want to join HT ;).

Really don't know the reasoning but do know many are closing.

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #273 on: October 18, 2020, 02:16:01 AM »
What's the ration for a guy with a positive and negative test, antibiotics to wear a mask?

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #274 on: October 18, 2020, 02:16:39 AM »
Everyone here will agree that Cuomo's remark was horrible, inexcusable, racist, and factually incorrect (the only disagreement is to which level it's incorrect).
Question: Where are our politicians supposedly representing us calling him out with outrage on this comment? Things like this give people like Heshy Tishler a following.

Not always is calling out someone you disagree with a productive strategy, even if they are wrong. Being dead right is not an ideal. If our objective is to get things back open, going to war with Cuomo is not the way to accomplish it. The last thing we need is a 6 year old Al Sharpton and his 5 year old fan club making Lag Baomer on TV. Maybe our politicians know the dynamics a bit better than we do, which is why they're keeping publicly respectful.


As of now, all schools are closed tomorrow. There is currently no end in sight in the showdown. Tischler's been arrested, and half our rabbanim or roshei mosdos may also be by the end the week. Bridges that were built over years are being burnt down in days. How's the Tischler plan of action working out?


Cuomo and the powers that be in Albany will likely be around longer than covid will be. Making enemies of them is not in our short or long term interests.

Myopic is too kind a term.

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #275 on: October 18, 2020, 02:18:42 AM »
What's the ration for a guy with a positive and negative test, antibiotics to wear a mask?

To keep yeshivos, shuls, and communities open. Is that such a ridiculous objective?

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #276 on: October 18, 2020, 02:21:57 AM »
Poor minyan in Bais Dovid that never has more then 10 people had 20 people this shabbos got slapped with a 15k fine ouch

Should get thrown out if it gets to court. The executive order clearly differentiates between non essential gatherings (cancelled in all sizes), and houses of worship (capped at lesser of 25% capacity or 10 people). The 15k fines were clearly stated to apply only to non essential gatherings, not to houses of worship.

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #277 on: October 18, 2020, 02:22:26 AM »
To keep yeshivos, shuls, and communities open. Is that such a ridiculous objective?

I fully agree.
I was asking if scientifically there's a reason?

Offline mgarfin

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #278 on: October 18, 2020, 02:23:03 AM »

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: Czar Cuomo
« Reply #279 on: October 18, 2020, 02:25:55 AM »
I fully agree.
I was asking if scientifically there's a reason?

There's a psychological rationale to create a conformity pressure for everyone to be wearing masks instead of pressure the opposite way; and logistical rationale, being as not everywhere has the capacity for people to be constantly monitoring their antibody levels to ensure that it does not drop below the level considered positive, so it's therefore logistically simpler to tell people to keep the masks across the board.