Czar Cuomo

[Yehuda57]

Says the guy who kept on posting nonsense about an imaginary difference between a 'network channel' and a 'news station'.

Reporters constantly beat on the drum that they don't cheer for a team. This is not the case for cable channels that have the stated goal of being one sided. This is basic stuff, I didn't make it up.

The easy way to differentiate is cable vs network, though there are differences, like CNN.

[Yehuda57]

Time for a PG Master Thread

It can be stored in the cloud

[shabbosabba]

Look at the politicians. Fringes aside, you typically won't hear mainstream leading Democratic politicians saying all Republicans are deplorable. They say the GOP has a crazy fringe (which includes DJT) and should be doing more to distance themselves from it.

Could be I'm wrong, but that's not the impression I've been getting recently.

Just take a look at the White House staff. And then at the media covering it.

Look at the media in the days after Jan. 6.

(Sorry, I can't link you to anything, I wanted to look it up, but my filter is very limited in what sites I can visit, and CNN doesn't make the cut.)

[PlatinumGuy]

Back to the topic of this thread, NY by any objective metric handled covid as bad as any other state, or even country.

This is demonstrably objectively false, I can think of an objective metric by which NY did very well - performance after the initial wave when NY was hurt first and wasn't equipped. I didn't look thorough all the data, but since Aug 1, 2020 NY reported ~5000 deaths (removing the 9k dump from before), whereas Florida reported in the same time period 22,000 deaths .  Texas and California each reported 35,000 dead during that time period, Ohio reported 9000 deaths, and I'm guessing many other states but I don't have the patience to calculate it per capita.

https://www.sciline.org/covid/infographic (If you don't trust the states, you can cross reference it against the CDC)

That's almost 10x as many people dying. If you put the first wave aside, NY did dramatically better than other states covid wise, although at an expensive price (restrictions and lockdowns).


Cuomo is heralded because he brought national attention to Covid and forced the WH out of their stupor. When Covid was rampant in NY, the Federal government still didn't approve any Covid test - even a private lab or hospital couldn't test people if they had covid or not. Cuomo is credited with going on TV loud and clear and eliciting a Federal response. People are willing to overlook his mistake of sending Covid+ patients into NH, bc there is no reason to suspect any malice and it wasn't such a lack of competence considering the lack of information at the time. 25 states had the same exact policy.

Most of the hate of Cuomo has nothing to do with people who died in April in nursing homes, people are simply upset at Cuomo because he imposed Covid restrictions they didn't like, just like kids get upset at their parents when they tell them they can't have candy. The media heralds it because by and large the restrictions kept people alive, even if they weren't always perfectly fair.

There is no liberal media manipulation of voters here for the simple fact that there is no piece of information that wasn't covered, and everybody who is interested in further coverage goes to Fox.

Cuomo's favorability is declining for the simple reason people are seeing Florida's economy do much better and thinking it would've been better to sacrifice more covid deaths in the interest of quality of life.

I'm somewhat of a connoisseur of snark.

יהללוך זר ולא פיך. You totally missed the point. I was simply pointing out even the most leftist MSM publication in the country is calling for Cuomo to be impeached, I never denied it being leftist even if I mocked the incense with which MAGA's refer to it.

[PlatinumGuy]

Abortion vs Masks? which Murders (in your opinion) does the government need to enforce and which one not? The child that will be killed and cant fight for himself or the person who either can stay home or wear 4 masks which according to Fauci is 225% effective?

I want the government to protect the safety of all human beings, as the torah defines a human being. We can continue the debate in the other thread, you'll have a few more people on your side there.

Do you think murdering a human and murdering a fetus are exactly the same thing, or is there a little difference? The Torah explicitly does not consider murder to include abortion. There are 2 key differences IMHO. First, a human being is a soul, the body is just a wrapper. The soul isn't fully present in this world until birth no matter how late stage the pregnancy is. Second, abortion isn't proactively taking independent life, it is simply removing the mothers protection. Why should the mother be forced to sustain life, of a rapist no less?

An abortion is preserving the woman's sovereignty on her body.  That includes the freedom to sin with her body. The Torah doesn't place penultimate value on freedom, so we believe a woman is generally obligated to sustain the infant, and stopping the pregnancy is a severe moral transgression. But do we want the government to enforce our religious obligations? The Torah considers marital infidelity and incest to be far worse than abortion. Do we want the government to tell people who to sleep with? What about if the majority of a Chrisitian country want to impose the Catholic ban on divorce?

If a fetus's rights are so valuable that they warrant governmental intervention to compel the mother to fulfill her obligations toward it, what will you to those who argue an 8 day old baby shouldn't have its body mutilated because of our religious belief? We don't want a nanny state. The government shouldn't tell us what we should do to our babies, and it shouldn't force mothers to maintain pregnancies they aren't interested in, whether they are morally and religiously obligated to or not.

[EliJelly]

Besides for the fact that govt should not enforce gay marriages somehow = certifying it as marriage. In Iran they are hanged in the city centers, in the US they can live their life freely - "Govt should not enforce" accomplished.

[yuneeq]

...

TLDR; if you cherry pick the data, Cuomo was a fantastic leader that went against all logic to murder save thousands of nursing home residents.  But only if you count the people that survived and stop counting a minute before each person died. And also don’t forget that Cuomo loves (to hate) Jews.

YS’V

[PlatinumGuy]

TLDR; if you cherry pick the data, Cuomo was a fantastic leader that went against all logic to murder save thousands of nursing home residents.  But only if you count the people that survived and stop counting a minute before each person died.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but the question is if people who think otherwise are being misled by a lack of information because of partisan media, or they legitimately see it different than you. I don’t think there is any piece of the Coumo saga that was not reported in MSM. If somebody didn’t find the coverage sufficient or the tone appropriate, they have no problem seeking information further.

Comparing Cuomo’s performance after the first wave to other states isn’t cherry picking data, there is a very strong argument to be made NY had it much worse than other states in March and it isn’t a level playing field.

[PlatinumGuy]

Besides for the fact that govt should not enforce gay marriages somehow = certifying it as marriage. In Iran they are hanged in the city centers, in the US they can live their life freely - "Govt should not enforce" accomplished.

Until Obama gays weren’t officially allowed in the US military.

Whether you call it a wedding or Disney fairytale fantasy, the fact of the matter is that the government didn’t treat gays who thought themselves married as a couple equally and thus discriminated against them.

If the government would only accept weddings in church and not recognize Jewish marriages would you still say it’s OK bc the government is just not certifying a marriage and isn’t proactively enforcing a ban on Judaism?

The government should have no say in people’s moral or religious choices. If you don’t want them to interfere with your religion, don’t ask them to stop other people’s sins.

[yuneeq]

You’re entitled to your opinion, but the question is if people who think otherwise are being misled by a lack of information because of partisan media, or they legitimately see it different than you. I don’t think there is any piece of the Coumo saga that was not reposted in MSM. If somebody didn’t find the coverage sufficient or the tone appropriate, they have no problem seeking information further.

Comparing Cuomo’s performance after the first wave to other states isn’t cherry picking data, there is a very strong argument to be made NY had it much worse than other states in March and it isn’t a level playing field.

It is cherry picking data because he murdered the most vulnerable in the first wave. And your numbers are way off regardless.  Bottom line when faced with the first wave, he made the worst decisions of anywhere, and murdered thousands because of it, despite the repeated calls and warnings from literally everyone in the nursing home industry. The idiot is a conceited murderer. He did nothing but ride a natural decline and declare victory, and used his first opportunity to go full Farrakhan in perfect fashion. No he was not called out 1% of what he should’ve been. He got an Emmy and national attention as the worlds greatest COVID expert. The anti semite deserves to burn in hell forever.

[PlatinumGuy]

It is cherry picking data because he murdered the most vulnerable in the first wave.

UK had the same amount of NY deaths in the first wave and still had an even larger death toll in the second wave. Other European countries as well. There were plenty more of the most vulnerable in NY who would’ve died after the first wave if not for Cuomo’s measures.

The lockdown price may not have been worth it, but denying that is pure blindness.

[EliJelly]

Until Obama gays weren’t officially allowed in the US military.

Whether you call it a wedding or Disney fairytale fantasy, the fact of the matter is that the government didn’t treat gays who thought themselves married as a couple equally and thus discriminated against them.

If the government would only accept weddings in church and not recognize Jewish marriages would you still say it’s OK bc the government is just not certifying a marriage and isn’t proactively enforcing a ban on Judaism?

The government should have no say in people’s moral or religious choices. If you don’t want them to interfere with your religion, don’t ask them to stop other people’s sins.

This isn't about government having a say in religious matters or stopping sins. It's about government proactively changing it's laws to certify whatever behavior some people would like to call marriage. That's a huge step forward than just saying "Govt shouldn't enforce".

And your analogy of what if the government chooses to recognize only wedding conducted in a church while not recognizing rabbinical ones is faulty. That would be simple discriminating against one religion. The proper liberal idea would be that government shouldn't recognize marriages of neither religion and only civil marriages. But I would be ok with that.

[S209]

What about the standard in place until a few years ago that nearly everyone agreed upon (see: DOMA), which is that marriage sanctioned by government is a good thing, but only between one man and one woman? How did that 200+ year old American value change in just a few years, to the point that even the most ardent defenders just want *all* marriages unrecognized?

[Yehuda57]

I really need to go to sleep

Once again I don't have the luxury of time to go through every absurdity in your post. A couple points.

California and Washington had cases s early as NY, if not earlier. They didn't have that distastrous first wave. Because Cuomo was a dunce.

California reversed the very same nursing home policy on day 1 because it was obviously absurd.

The javitz center and two military ships had thousands of beds. They were left empty.

The frum community was decimated. Crown Heights lost an entire generation. We know what the hospitals were like, they killed people. We were shut down before Cuomo did.

You can't just discount more than 10k deaths because it happened in this imaginary grace period.

NY announced at the end of April that there was person to person transmission of Corona. Stuff I knew in February from amateurs like @yuneeq.

Your comparing destroying the economy to taking away candy is revolting. Bad economy means destroyed lives, it means dead people. It means years of poverty that will effect generations.

Jews were singled out early, we were accused of crying wolf. Then summer came and BLM riots, and we were proven correct.

The second wave came, Jews were singled out and the micro cluster strategy was born.

Jews were again accused of crying wolf (by you as well, if memory serves).

Then the second wave spread and many more neighborhoods exceeded the micro cluster thresholds, but the strategy was gone.

The Jews were proved right again.

Cuomo critics said he would change his tune after the election, and smart people like me told them not to listen to conspiracy theories.

The election came and he said NY can no longer afford to remain locked down. Did covid numbers improve? No. Is there a reason to suddenly give the toddlers candy?

Guess which state has the highest key capita hospitalizations right now? NY. That's not counting the first wave, that's just current numbers.

And no, the mainstream media has not covered any of this. They are only now starting to report on the nursing home fiasco. They still have not covered the blatant anti Semitic micro cluster strategy, nor his sudden post Biden about face in lockdowns.

There's more to say, but

[shabbosabba]

Comparing Cuomo’s performance after the first wave to other states isn’t cherry picking data, there is a very strong argument to be made NY had it much worse than other states in March and it isn’t a level playing field.

While New York may have had it worse, the issue is not more cases, it's the deaths. New York had a disproportionate death rate as compared to other states during that period. And a huge percent of that is because of the nursing home deaths.

I don’t think there is any piece of the Coumo saga that was not reported in MSM. If somebody didn’t find the coverage sufficient or the tone appropriate, they have no problem seeking information further.

Except for the fact that they deliberately hid data and underreported numbers because they were afraid that the DoJ would go after them. (The only release the numbers after judge forced them to) If the DOJ would have gone after them, they would be right to do so. In fact, they would be remiss if they didn't.

I remember looking at the charts back in May and June, and I noticed that New York City and New York state were separate metrics. Because New York City had the same numbers as some states, it would look terrible for the state if they had a totally disproportionate number of deaths.

There was almost zero negative reporting over the fact that this man was responsible for the deaths of thousands of senior citizens.
But,

You’re entitled to your opinion

[Lurker]

Without diving too deep into the cluster$#@! this turned into, just a few thoughts:

1) Cuomo being... whatever he is, and making a ton of indisputably horrible decisions, doesn't make everything that went wrong his fault. IIRC, NY's nursing home numbers were on par with NJ, MI, MA, and PA in the early stages of the pandemic. The fatality rate was also high in all the northern states during March/April. Comparing it to California or Washington, which were seeded with a different strain and had different weather conditions, isn't fair. Again, that doesn't excuse his bad decisions and misuse of the Javitz and hospital ship, but let's not make as if he could have saved 10K lives.

2) @CountValentine (hope he's well) would have interjected with his opinion about news vs talking heads. Media is an overarching term that includes both the news, analysis, opinion, and entertainment. Every media outlet gives the news, and they also try to attract viewers (or readers) by providing the other things, too. Invariably, they decide that it's good business to cater to one side or the other, since people are prone to confirmation bias and want to hear what they already believe. Some are better than others at keeping their news and opinions separate. Most fail.

3) The left-wing media turned on Cuomo because they don't need him anymore. Cuomo vs Trump was good for ratings. Now they can jump on the bandwagon bashing the lying murderer and still get the ratings, without damaging the Democratic Party in NYS, because he'll just be replaced with someone more radical. The only ones who haven't jumped on board is CNN, and that's because the optics of bad headlines with the last name of one of their biggest stars just doesn't serve their purpose.

4) Very unpopular opinion: Cuomo isn't an anti-Semite. Jews were discriminated against. No argument there. But just because the a-hole took the easy target to serve his own purposes doesn't put him on par with Farrakhan. That doesn't make him a better person. I just think the anti-Semite tag distracts from who he really is and why he did what he did (and continues to do).

[grodnoking]

4) Very unpopular opinion: Cuomo isn't an anti-Semite. Jews were discriminated against. No argument there. But just because the a-hole took the easy target to serve his own purposes doesn't put him on par with Farrakhan. That doesn't make him a better person. I just think the anti-Semite tag distracts from who he really is and why he did what he did (and continues to do).

Targeting the jews because they are an easy target is textbook antisemitism.

[Lurker]

Targeting the jews because they are an easy target is textbook antisemitism.

He didn't target them because they were Jewish. He targeted them because they were easy targets. If they hadn't been easy targets, he would have gone after whoever else served his purpose.

ETA: IMO. This is how I see it. I've been wrong before.

[aygart]

He didn't target them because they were Jewish. He targeted them because they were easy targets. If they hadn't been easy targets, he would have gone after whoever else served his purpose.

ETA: IMO. This is how I see it. I've been wrong before.

Do you think he would have gone after African Americans or Immigrants had they been an easy target?

[grodnoking]

He didn't target them because they were Jewish. He targeted them because they were easy targets. If they hadn't been easy targets, he would have gone after whoever else served his purpose.

ETA: IMO. This is how I see it. I've been wrong before.

There's no way if the African Americans or Latinos were easy targets that he would have gone after them.