Most addictive ipod/iphone games

[yossi4k]

ur right... my post they all cost but i got them free thru installous (jailbreak) and im sure u can get most of these there too.

Just curious if anybody ever asked a competent rabbi about downloading cracked games eg. via installous?

[jj1000]

Your asking if anyone ever asked a rabbi if its permited to steal. I doubt it....

[Chaikel]

Your asking if anyone ever asked a rabbi if its permited to steal. I doubt it....

Believe it or not, Halachic stealing does not follow the US government copyright infringement laws. In fact many of the copyright infringement laws don't follow the US constitution. So just because Congress or the supreme court legally or illegally decided that something is stealing, doesn't make it so l'halacha. Halachically in order to be oiver gezel you have to phisically (baring possible Karka and other specific exception) remove the item from one person's reshus and into another person's reshus. I don't see how it is happening in a case of cracking software.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT IS HALACHICALLY MUTAR (in bold and caps so that I can say "I even put it in bold and caps" when someone says that I said it is mutar)
There are various other halachic issurim, such as hezek and hasagas gevul. But Gezel it's not

[yossi4k]

Believe it or not, Halachic stealing does not follow the US government copyright infringement laws. In fact many of the copyright infringement laws don't follow the US constitution. So just because Congress or the supreme court legally or illegally decided that something is stealing, doesn't make it so l'halacha. Halachically in order to be oiver gezel you have to phisically (baring possible Karka and other specific exception) remove the item from one person's reshus and into another person's reshus. I don't see how it is happening in a case of cracking software.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT IS HALACHICALLY MUTAR (in bold and caps so that I can say "I even put it in bold and caps" when someone says that I said it is mutar)
There are various other halachic issurim, such as hezek and hasagas gevul. But Gezel it's not

Well said. It sounds to me like a similar question to copying/downloading someones else's music...

[Chaikel]

Well said. It sounds to me like a similar question to copying/downloading someones else's music...

Yup. Again, I'm not saying it's mutar, but it's not gezel. Contrary to popular belief, US gov't does not dictate halacha

[Saver2000]

Yup. Again, I'm saying it's mutar, but it's not gezel. Contrary to popular belief, US gov't does not dictate halacha

Wat about dina di'malchusa dina

[Chaikel]

Wat about dina di'malchusa dina

Doesn't dictate hilchchos gezel. The point I repeated (even in bold and caps) was that it might not be mutar, but isn't gezel

[Jkhein]

Yup. Again, I'm saying it's mutar

You prob mean NOT mutar.

[AsherO]

You prob mean NOT mutar.

Freudian slip

[Chaikel]

You prob mean NOT mutar.

Not quite, but thanks I fixed it

[Chaikel]

Freudian slip

Lol. I've heard shiurim go either way

[bubbles]

Wat about dina di'malchusa dina

That only applies to laws that they themselves keep. I'm sure you have driven atleast one mile over the speed limit in your life? Or perhaps jay walked?

[jj1000]

That only applies to laws that they themselves keep. I'm sure you have driven atleast one mile over the speed limit in your life? Or perhaps jay walked?

By "they themselves" to whom are you referring? the founding father, congress, judges, american populous, criminals? Just because some people break laws therefore we are all allowed to break laws. Here I thought as Jews we held ourselves to a higher standard.

[bubbles]

By "they themselves" to whom are you referring? the founding father, congress, judges, american populous, criminals? Just because some people break laws therefore we are all allowed to break laws. Here I thought as Jews we held ourselves to a higher standard.

I believe its judged by the poulous of the malchus where the din is. You don't have to keep any laws which they themselves overall are not makpid on. But please feel free to drive exactly 65 and never roll thru a stop sign. Ever bought alcohol before you turned 21?

[jj1000]

I believe its judged by the poulous of the malchus where the din is. You don't have to keep any laws which they themselves overall are not makpid on. But please feel free to drive exactly 65 and never roll thru a stop sign. Ever bought alcohol before you turned 21?

Granted but for the discussion at hand the question is where do you draw the line? Maybe the halcha follows what the government actually punishes as a crime. As in your example going 5 over won't get you a ticket but going 11 over could so possibly driving 11 over the speed limit is going against halacha?

[bubbles]

Granted but for the discussion at hand the question is where do you draw the line? Maybe the halcha follows what the government actually punishes as a crime. As in your example going 5 over won't get you a ticket but going 11 over could so possibly driving 11 over the speed limit is going against halacha?

Ask your LOR. And have you ever heard of them punishing someone for downloading cracked games?.

[AsherO]

Ask your LOR. And have you ever heard of them punishing someone for downloading cracked games?.

It's not criminal (AFAIK). In civil court people/companies get fined/penalized all the time for IP infringement.

[jj1000]

Why lor? you seemed content paskaning halacha 5 posts ago... I was asking if getting punished equates going against halacha not saying that it does... I don't mean to come across as arguing with you I am also curious what the halacha is. Until now I assumed it was obviously breaking halacha, but i am not complaining if I am wrong I have done my fair share of "ilegal" downloading...

[bubbles]

Why lor? you seemed content paskaning halacha 5 posts ago... I was asking if getting punished equates going against halacha not saying that it does... I don't mean to come across as arguing with you I am also curious what the halacha is. Until now I assumed it was obviously breaking halacha, but i am not complaining if I am wrong I have done my fair share of "ilegal" downloading...

Lor because I realize that unfortunately I am not even close to be holding by paskening shailos. 5 posts ago I was just informing you of something that I had heard which would make it seem that its not so pashut that its assur. Once you want a psak on a specific case I felt the need to fall back on the LOR response

[Chaikel]

BTW the same thing applies to mooching wifi, even hacking AFAIK isn't illegal. And as far as halacha is concerned, it's definitely not gezel, however if you are hogging bandwidth to the point that you are noticeably degrading the speed of other users then you may fall under the category of mazik.

I know someone who got a heter from a competant rav to hack a wifi and use it (internet issue aside). YLORMV