Author Topic: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt  (Read 13526 times)

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #220 on: March 16, 2021, 10:02:54 AM »
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/media-misquoted-trump-phone-call-georgia-investigator

I would be interested to hear what her justification for deleting the recording is. (It was found in the recycle bin on her computer.)
Lol, this is pretty pathetic. A misquoting is not the same as a debunking. It changes absolutely nothing about that whole saga. The differences in what was initially reported and what was discovered on the audio are completely immaterial - the exact words may be different, but the content is the same. More importantly, we already heard him say months ago "All I want to do is this: I just want to find 11,780 votes" on the call with the actual SOS (the other call was with the SOS investigator).

Offline avromie7

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #221 on: March 16, 2021, 10:22:53 AM »
Lol, this is pretty pathetic. A misquoting is not the same as a debunking. It changes absolutely nothing about that whole saga. The differences in what was initially reported and what was discovered on the audio are completely immaterial - the exact words may be different, but the content is the same. More importantly, we already heard him say months ago "All I want to do is this: I just want to find 11,780 votes" on the call with the actual SOS (the other call was with the SOS investigator).
The media twisted what Trump said to mean something illegal, it turns out that he didn't even say anything that can be twisted to mean something illegal. If the media hadn't made a big deal out of what they claimed Trump said, this wouldn't be a big deal.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #222 on: March 16, 2021, 10:42:46 AM »
The media twisted what Trump said to mean something illegal, it turns out that he didn't even say anything that can be twisted to mean something illegal. If the media hadn't made a big deal out of what they claimed Trump said, this wouldn't be a big deal.
Explain the legal difference is between "... “find the fraud”; ..she would be “a national hero” if she did so." and "Trump urged the investigator to scrutinize ballots in Fulton County, Ga., asserting she would find “dishonesty” there. He also told her that she had “the most important job in the country right now.” You can tell me neither is illegal, what Trump did wasn't inappropriate, etc. etc - and that's it's own discussion - but let's not pretend like there was some big bait and switch.

Offline avromie7

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #223 on: March 16, 2021, 10:51:39 AM »
Explain the legal difference is between "... “find the fraud”; ..she would be “a national hero” if she did so." and "Trump urged the investigator to scrutinize ballots in Fulton County, Ga., asserting she would find “dishonesty” there. He also told her that she had “the most important job in the country right now.” You can tell me neither is illegal, what Trump did wasn't inappropriate, etc. etc - and that's it's own discussion - but let's not pretend like there was some big bait and switch.
Come on, if the media was honest and used the exact words he said, it would never have been a story to begin with.

"Find the fraud" can be misconstrued to mean do whatever it takes to "find" fraud, "scrutinize the ballots" can not. Saying she would be a national hero if she reaches the intended outcome, may be pressuring to reach the intended outcome, "you have the most important job in the country" is not.

Be honest, it's not for no reason that the media changed the wording.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #224 on: March 16, 2021, 11:05:08 AM »
Come on, if the media was honest and used the exact words he said, it would never have been a story to begin with.

"Find the fraud" can be misconstrued to mean do whatever it takes to "find" fraud, "scrutinize the ballots" can not. Saying she would be a national hero if she reaches the intended outcome, may be pressuring to reach the intended outcome, "you have the most important job in the country" is not.

Be honest, it's not for no reason that the media changed the wording.
You're not being honest at all. There is zero significant rhetorical difference in those 2 sets of statements. If you find one objectionable, you'll find the other objectionable - and vice versa.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2021, 11:21:19 AM by skyguy918 »

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #225 on: March 16, 2021, 02:00:06 PM »
Lol, this is pretty pathetic. A misquoting is not the same as a debunking. It changes absolutely nothing about that whole saga. The differences in what was initially reported and what was discovered on the audio are completely immaterial - the exact words may be different, but the content is the same. More importantly, we already heard him say months ago "All I want to do is this: I just want to find 11,780 votes" on the call with the actual SOS (the other call was with the SOS investigator).

I'm quite surprised at this. There is significant difference in degree between what was reported and what actually happened. But regardless, to me, this error is more about the media than Trump. Multiple news agencies confirmed independently that the *quotes* were accurate. They were used in the articles of impeachment. That's quite a severe consequence for wrong reporting. When has there been such blatant misreporting about left wing politicians? And what will be the consequences outside of right wingers shouting into the wind?
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #226 on: March 16, 2021, 02:10:22 PM »
I'm quite surprised at this. There is significant difference in degree between what was reported and what actually happened. But regardless, to me, this error is more about the media than Trump. Multiple news agencies confirmed independently that the *quotes* were accurate. They were used in the articles of impeachment. That's quite a severe consequence for wrong reporting.

That is absolutely false, the impeachment cites only the call with Brad Raffenspberger based on the tape of it that he released himself.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-resolution/24/text
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #227 on: March 16, 2021, 02:28:14 PM »
There is significant difference in degree between what was reported and what actually happened.
Please elaborate.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #228 on: March 16, 2021, 03:02:45 PM »
I'm quite surprised at this. There is significant difference in degree between what was reported and what actually happened. But regardless, to me, this error is more about the media than Trump. Multiple news agencies confirmed independently that the *quotes* were accurate. They were used in the articles of impeachment. That's quite a severe consequence for wrong reporting.

And if she had emptied her trash, we would never have know that they got it wrong.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #229 on: March 16, 2021, 03:06:17 PM »
That is absolutely false, the impeachment cites only the call with Brad Raffenspberger based on the tape of it that he released himself.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-resolution/24/text
This is the impeachment brief, and the impeachment articles themselves has the word "find" in quotes as well referring to this call, iinm.


So let's say I'm wrong about it being in the articles, it's still in the brief, definitely hugely influential and definitely not "absolutely false"
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #230 on: March 16, 2021, 03:22:16 PM »
the impeachment articles themselves has the word "find" in quotes as well referring to this call, iinm.


Nope. The impeachment articles that Congress voted on have the word 'Find' in quotes referring to the Jan 2 call that Raffenspberger released.

Quote
President Trump’s conduct on January 6, 2021, followed his prior efforts to subvert and obstruct the certification of the results of the 2020 Presidential election. Those prior efforts included a phone call on January 2, 2021, during which President Trump urged the secretary of state of Georgia, Brad Raffensperger, to “find” enough votes to overturn the Georgia Presidential election results and threatened Secretary Raffensperger if he failed to do so.

You seem to believe the fact Trump asked for fraud to be 'found' was somehow debunked, but it was not. Trump definitely did say, "I just want to find 11,780 votes".

it's still in the brief, definitely hugely influential
There was zero material difference to that influence between the precise words Trump used and the vague quote the WaPo reported incorrectly.

The house brief explicitly qualifies it:

Quote
President Trump’s campaign to reverse the election results—and to keep himself in the
White House—lasted through the days immediately preceding the assault on the Capitol. On December 23, for instance, President Trump reportedly called one of Georgia’s lead election investigators, urging him to “find the fraud” and claiming that the official would be a “national
hero” if he did so. On January 2, President Trump called Raffensperger to push him to somehow
“find” enough votes to overturn the state’s results: “I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one
more than we have because we won the state.”29 President Trump also made a clear and chilling
threat to Georgia’s highest election official: Failing to “find” enough votes to overturn the results of
the Georgia election would be “a criminal offense” and “a big risk to you.”30 By this point, it was
evident that President Trump would resort to any means necessary to reverse the election outcome.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #231 on: March 16, 2021, 03:26:52 PM »

The house brief explicitly qualifies it:

Do you not see an issue with a "reportedly" being included in articles of impeachment whether qualified or not?
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #232 on: March 16, 2021, 03:32:09 PM »
Do you not see an issue with a "reportedly" being included in articles of impeachment whether qualified or not?
It's not in the articles of impeachment. It's a brief which is part of the debate, in which anything and everything can be included.
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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #233 on: March 26, 2021, 02:20:02 AM »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline aygart

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Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #235 on: May 31, 2021, 10:55:35 AM »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #236 on: June 16, 2021, 06:00:04 AM »

״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline aygart

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Re: Republicans breaking with Trump's coup attempt
« Reply #237 on: September 03, 2021, 01:50:09 PM »
Guilty plea by the horned guy

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1433806887644979200.html

Some notable tweets:





Feelings don't care about your facts