Author Topic: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?  (Read 11551 times)

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #105 on: January 12, 2021, 01:33:45 PM »
Shouldn't the drop be higher than 33%?
The Pfizer data relates to symptomatic illness, and we already know the vaccine is more effective against severe illness than it is against all illness, so nothing really surprising.

Importantly, if a PCR test is negative, one is extremely unlikely to be transmitting virus at that point
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline how

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #106 on: January 12, 2021, 01:54:44 PM »
Shouldn't the drop be higher than 33%?
Yes...

Offline AsherO

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #107 on: January 12, 2021, 02:06:49 PM »
The Pfizer data relates to symptomatic illness, and we already know the vaccine is more effective against severe illness than it is against all illness, so nothing really surprising.

Importantly, if a PCR test is negative, one is extremely unlikely to be transmitting virus at that point

Im not following the numbers. How does 33% reduction translate to 80-95% efficacy?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #108 on: January 12, 2021, 02:10:39 PM »
Im not following the numbers. How does 33% reduction translate to 80-95% efficacy?
33% reduction in asymptomatic cases can be consistent with 80% efficacy against symptomatic cases.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline AsherO

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #109 on: January 12, 2021, 02:13:12 PM »
33% reduction in asymptomatic cases can be consistent with 80% efficacy against symptomatic cases.

The tweet says 33% drop in cases, what percentage of those are symptomatic? (And what are they comparing to?)

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #110 on: January 12, 2021, 02:16:18 PM »
The tweet says 33% drop in cases, what percentage of those are symptomatic? (And what are they comparing to?)
Not sure. The comparison is to the the entire Israeli testing system, where all Covid exposures get less quarantine with 2 negative tests, hence only a small portion of those getting testing are symptomatic. The overall positivity rate is around 7%

This is the incentive for Pfizer to supply Israel, comprehensive data is readily available
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #111 on: January 12, 2021, 02:20:03 PM »
33% reduction in asymptomatic cases can be consistent with 80% efficacy against symptomatic cases.
We also don't know when the asymptomatic people contacted the virus, they may have contacted it weeks before receiving the vaccine.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline biobook

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #112 on: January 12, 2021, 02:20:54 PM »
Shouldn't the drop be higher than 33%?
The group in Israel is all over 60 - perhaps older people take longer to produce immune response than younger group studied by Pfizer.

https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/Hy2tLSiAP
מנתונים ראשוניים של מכון קופת חולים כללית למחקר עולה כי יש ירידה משמעותית בהדבקה של מי שחוסנו - 14 ימים אחרי מנת החיסון הראשונה. מדובר באוכלוסיית בני ה-60 ומעלה. בימים 5 עד 12 אחרי המנה הראשונה לא רואים השפעה כלל של החיסון, מסביר פרופ' רן בליצר, ראש מערך חדשנות של הכללית. ביום ב-13 יש ירידה קלה, ואז צניחה של 33% ביום ה-14. מאותו יום נשמר הפער בקרב החיוביים.

So there was no effect day 5-12 after immunization, then a a small decrease of positives on day 13, and a precipitous decrease on day 14.  Similar to those two curves we saw from pfizer, that began to diverge about day 12-14.  Not clear if he means that the gap of 33% continues thereafter, or if the gap continues thereafter, meaning it might be 50% the next day.

הבדיקה נעשתה באמצעות השוואה בין קבוצת מחוסנים ללא מחוסנים, בתקנון לפי גיל. קופת חולים כללית היא הגדולה בישראל, ומבטחת את הציבור המבוגר ביותר, והבדיקה נערכה על קבוצה של 200 אלף בני אדם. זו הפעם הראשונה בעולם שיש הוכחה שחיסון פייזר איננו מונע רק מחלה עם תסמינים - שזה מה שהוכיחו המחקרים השונים - אלא גם הדבקה ממש. אי אפשר לדעת בשלב זה אם החיסון מוריד עוד הדבקה, מעבר ל-33%, אחרי המנה השנייה - אך סביר להניח שכן.
Sounds like they were comparing tests given to unvaccinated people at this time in the Clalit kupat cholim, so not comparing to a placebo group like Pfizer did.

Offline biobook

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #113 on: January 12, 2021, 02:28:34 PM »
This is good news, though not completely persuasive. AFAIK people are being told to be especially careful after vaccination, so this emphasis on precautions could also cause them to show fewer positive tests compared to the general group of nonvaccinated citizens who happen to have been tested during the same period.  Time will tell.

Offline tmendy226

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #114 on: January 12, 2021, 02:37:09 PM »
I am under 30, had a mild covid case around Purim and have around 18 level antibodies (or whatever you call it). I have an opportunity to get the vaccine now.

Any benefit for me to take it?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #115 on: January 12, 2021, 02:47:44 PM »
I am under 30, had a mild covid case around Purim and have around 18 level antibodies (or whatever you call it). I have an opportunity to get the vaccine now.

Any benefit for me to take it?
Yes stronger and longer lasting protection, aside from access benefits to hotels and countries etc and lack of quarantine obligations
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline how

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #116 on: January 12, 2021, 02:49:45 PM »
I am under 30, had a mild covid case around Purim and have around 18 level antibodies (or whatever you call it). I have an opportunity to get the vaccine now.

Any benefit for me to take it?
Ask your doctor...

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #117 on: January 12, 2021, 02:54:35 PM »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline yungermanchik

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #118 on: January 12, 2021, 02:59:09 PM »
I am under 30, had a mild covid case around Purim and have around 18 level antibodies (or whatever you call it). I have an opportunity to get the vaccine now.

Any benefit for me to take it?
Possibly, some benefit, but not enough to warrant taking a slot that would be taken by a higher-risk person. 
Where can a 70+ (NY Resident) get a vaccine in NY or NJ Asap?
go to each of the various websites and reload every so often until a cancelation causes a slot to open up and quickly sign up.
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Offline yelped

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #119 on: January 12, 2021, 03:27:32 PM »
So that would jive with this:
The group in Israel is all over 60 - perhaps older people take longer to produce immune response than younger group studied by Pfizer.