Author Topic: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?  (Read 13178 times)

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #140 on: January 31, 2021, 12:08:47 PM »
It appears R’ Yitzchok Scheiner got the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine more than 2 weeks ago.
We already know it's not effective right away.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline S209

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #141 on: January 31, 2021, 12:09:47 PM »
We already know it's not effective right away.
I’m aware, just posting the DP. Many people seem to incorrectly believe that the first dose offers near instant protection, which it may to some extent, but not much.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #142 on: January 31, 2021, 12:12:51 PM »
It appears R’ Yitzchok Scheiner got the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine more than 2 weeks ago.

My cousin got COVID just after getting his second dose, although it seems he was exposed around a week after his first dose.

R’ Mendel Slomowitz currently has COVID, around 2.5 weeks after his first dose (I think Moderna).
I wonder if the symptoms slowed it down causing symptoms to only appear weeks later.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #143 on: January 31, 2021, 12:17:17 PM »
I wonder if the symptoms slowed it down causing symptoms to only appear weeks later.
Along those lines, Israel has a higher proportion of asymptomatic carriers (vs symptomatic) amongst people vaccinated (they have good data because all exposures are incentivized to test for a shorter quarantine), which means by virtue of not displaying symptoms they may be spreading it more than if they weren't vaccinated
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline avromie7

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #144 on: January 31, 2021, 12:37:25 PM »
Along those lines, Israel has a higher proportion of asymptomatic carriers (vs symptomatic) amongst people vaccinated (they have good data because all exposures are incentivized to test for a shorter quarantine), which means by virtue of not displaying symptoms they may be spreading it more than if they weren't vaccinated
Unless they're less likely to be spreaders due to lower viral load.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #145 on: January 31, 2021, 12:41:02 PM »
Unless they're less likely to be spreaders due to lower viral load.
Correct. We don’t know yet
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline S209

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #146 on: January 31, 2021, 01:32:46 PM »
Just looking at the data published by Moderna and Pfizer doesn’t it appear that the 1st dose takes effect some time earlier than the official day 14 mark causing infection rates to drop  at that point? Exposure to the virus would have to have occurred 2-14 days earlier, meaning the 14 day wait is misleading- it really kicks in 2-12 days after the first dose. Am I wrong?
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #147 on: January 31, 2021, 01:43:51 PM »
Just looking at the data published by Moderna and Pfizer doesn’t it appear that the 1st dose takes effect some time earlier than the official day 14 mark causing infection rates to drop  at that point? Exposure to the virus would have to have occurred 2-14 days earlier, meaning the 14 day wait is misleading- it really kicks in 2-12 days after the first dose. Am I wrong?

We don't know that vaccine impact is only at preventing infection at the exposure point.

We know the vaccine prevents severe symptoms even if it fails to prevent the original infection.

I think it follows that even if the vaccine only starts working after the original infection it can still prevent some of the symptoms, which can also mean vaccine is effective against reactivations and the reinfection v reactivation arguments are moot.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline S209

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #148 on: January 31, 2021, 01:47:55 PM »
We don't know that vaccine impact is only at preventing infection at the exposure point.

We know the vaccine prevents severe symptoms even if it fails to prevent the original infection.

I think it follows that even if the vaccine only starts working after the original infection it can still prevent some of the symptoms, which can also mean vaccine is effective against reactivations and the reinfection v reactivation arguments are moot.
That can also be explained by it reducing viral load at time of infection even if it doesn’t prevent infection entirely, but your point is fair.
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #149 on: January 31, 2021, 01:54:11 PM »
That can also be explained by it reducing viral load at time of infection even if it doesn’t prevent infection entirely
Correct
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline NTorch

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #150 on: January 31, 2021, 04:47:15 PM »
And I read it to a narrower focus asking/discussing whether those who recovered from an infection need to get vaccinated

That was what I intended.

But its funny that we see different answers here vs Israel.

My entire family had it in March

- those who are in the US are eligible (my AC had her first shot, my oldest daughter is on the fence about getting it).

- my son who is in Israel is ineligible as they are not vaccinating anyone with antibodies.

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #151 on: February 01, 2021, 01:58:29 PM »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline S209

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #152 on: February 01, 2021, 02:20:37 PM »
Weirdly, they don’t seem to have measured immune response *prior* to the first dose, so we have no way of knowing whether the stellar immune response predated the first dose. No?
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Offline biobook

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #153 on: February 01, 2021, 03:14:13 PM »
Weirdly, they don’t seem to have measured immune response *prior* to the first dose, so we have no way of knowing whether the stellar immune response predated the first dose. No?
They did measure antibodies prior to the first dose.  See results in figure on bottom of the submitted pre-print, linked to the 4th paragraph of the NYT article:  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/01/health/covid-vaccine-dose.html  or directly here: https://t.co/6EOEZq8tod?amp=1

A few of those who had recovered from covid didn't have detectable antibody before vaccination, but it looks like all of them did have a strong antibody response after the first vaccine.  So this shows that the memory B cells are still there even without antibody present, ready to quickly produce antibodies when needed. 

You can see the speed of that response, since those who've had covid responded to the first vaccine by producing antibodies 5-8 days later, while it took 9-12 days for those who haven't had covid to show that response.  In fact, the antibody response of the previously infected was so high after one shot, that it surpassed what the others reached after TWO shots.  The NYT article describes some of the machlokes on whether or not this means that those previously infected should get only one shot.

Offline Traveler718

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #154 on: February 02, 2021, 09:55:24 AM »

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #155 on: February 10, 2021, 01:21:46 AM »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #156 on: February 13, 2021, 07:56:48 PM »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline AsherO

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #157 on: February 13, 2021, 08:01:17 PM »

But this is after they've already told people who are allergic to eggs or other history vaccine-related allergic reaction not to take these vaccines.

Interesting that the numbers skew significantly towards females, wonder why that is.

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #158 on: February 13, 2021, 08:39:43 PM »
Do allergies in general skew Female?
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline AsherO

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #159 on: February 13, 2021, 08:51:48 PM »
Do allergies in general skew Female?

I have no idea, very possible. It just stood out to me.