Author Topic: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?  (Read 11018 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2020, 01:17:04 PM »
We have so many unanswered questions about transmission that, you are correct I do not understand how the statistical results prove the vaccine is 95% effective in immunizing people against the virus.
I'm indeed missing something that's why I posted because I want to be challenged sop that I can understand better

That is the purpose of the control group getting the placebo.
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Offline Alexsei

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2020, 01:17:55 PM »
Do you understand what I posted? Can you pinpoint to what exactly you are having difficulty understanding?I considered that. However from the following I gathered that that was not his question. Please CMIIW- perhaps I misunderstood.
Look at your own circles, have you seen people that weren't infected? can you explain why some people get infected and some don't?
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Offline Alexsei

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2020, 01:20:32 PM »
That is the purpose of the control group getting the placebo.
How can you ensure both groups have the same exposure? (and have the same susceptibility, which our knowledge is so vague at this point)
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Offline aygart

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2020, 01:23:38 PM »
How can you ensure both groups have the same exposure? (and have the same susceptibility, which our knowledge is so vague at this point)

You can't ensure so you take large groups and track them out and about to see if there are significant enough differences in results that it would be unlikely to be based on different behaviors.
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Offline Alexsei

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2020, 01:24:56 PM »
You can't ensure so you take large groups and track them out and about to see if there are significant enough differences in results that it would be unlikely to be based on different behaviors.
So 11/90 in the moderna trial is considered significant?
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Offline aygart

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2020, 02:25:55 PM »
So 11/90 in the moderna trial is considered significant?
I am not a statistician (that was my father who ran stats for FDA approval), but the numbers certainly were analyzed by people who understand them better than I do.
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Offline Alexsei

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2020, 02:29:00 PM »
I am not a statistician (that was my father who ran stats for FDA approval), but the numbers certainly were analyzed by people who understand them better than I do.
Trying to understand it
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Online Ergel

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2020, 03:13:14 PM »
@Alexsei I think a picture is worth a thousand words
See how the curve breaks sharply apart at day 7? That doesn't happen by chance
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Alexsei

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2020, 03:55:33 PM »
@Alexsei I think a picture is worth a thousand words
See how the curve breaks sharply apart at day 7? That doesn't happen by chance
TY that makes sense
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2020, 05:45:32 PM »
From page 27:

Is this saying that they had 19 cases of confirmed reinfection?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2020, 06:13:09 PM »
Is this saying that they had 19 cases of confirmed reinfection?
Yes, and the bigger issue is that they're showing a similar percentage (1.3%) and no distinction between priorly infected and no infection. However, you can also claim the they were flare-ups and not reinfections, so long as the genome isn't mapped (which is why we have very few 'confirmed' reinfection)
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline S209

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2020, 10:00:29 PM »
Trying to understand it
You start off with 40,000 people injected. Half have been injected with the vaccine, half with a placebo. Other than that, the 40,000 are a diverse mix of all types with varying behaviors in all types of environments. Then you start tracking infections in the group. You expect to have significantly more infections in the placebo group. Once you hit 170 infections, you check to see which group has more, and indeed, fully 162/170 infections occurred among the 20,000 who received a placebo. Of the 20,000 who received the vaccine, only 8 became infected. Each passing day, additional people become infected and you watch them fit neatly into that pattern as well (or adjust as necessary).

Do you understand how having 95% of infections occur in a the group that consists of half of the 40,000 people is significant? Think about that. Only 5% of the infections occurred in the randomly selected group that consisted of half of the experiment.
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Offline Alexsei

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2020, 10:19:21 PM »
You start off with 40,000 people injected. Half have been injected with the vaccine, half with a placebo. Other than that, the 40,000 are a diverse mix of all types with varying behaviors in all types of environments. Then you start tracking infections in the group. You expect to have significantly more infections in the placebo group. Once you hit 170 infections, you check to see which group has more, and indeed, fully 162/170 infections occurred among the 20,000 who received a placebo. Of the 20,000 who received the vaccine, only 8 became infected. Each passing day, additional people become infected and you watch them fit neatly into that pattern as well (or adjust as necessary).

Do you understand how having 95% of infections occur in a the group that consists of half of the 40,000 people is significant? Think about that. Only 5% of the infections occurred in the randomly selected group that consisted of half of the experiment.
I'm starting to get it thank you for the explanation
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Offline how

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2020, 12:14:45 AM »
NYS will only be using The Pfizer vaccine

Offline biobook

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2020, 02:09:08 AM »
@Alexsei I think a picture is worth a thousand words
See how the curve breaks sharply apart at day 7? That doesn't happen by chance
It looks like just one injection confers significant immunity.
"Akiko Iwasaki, PhD, an immunobiologist with the Yale University School of Medicine, said one striking finding was that people were protected as early as 12 to 13 days following the first dose. She added that high affinity antibodies and longer-term immunity will likely require the second dose and that all vaccines should stick to the two-dose regimen."
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/12/fda-documents-show-pfizer-covid-vaccine-protects-after-1-dose