Author Topic: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?  (Read 12442 times)

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2020, 12:19:58 PM »
Not clear even two doses would work at that point
How would that work?
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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2020, 12:28:25 PM »
How would that work?
Vector immunity. I’m not sure if that’s a thing with mRNA though.
Pfizer is downplaying the first dose data because it’s much less conclusive and the last thing they want is some government deciding to split their vaccines into 2...
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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2020, 12:29:50 PM »
I'm obviously missing something here. How can it be 82% effective after the first dose, but then only 52% effective between the first and second doses? And if it really is 82% after the first, why wouldn't Pfizer be playing that up instead of telling the NYT that the first dose is only 52% effective?
The only explanation I can think of is that 82% is after 7-10 days from the dose and 52% is counting from the first day, but it is amazing how many reporters and doctors are repeating data that clearly makes no sense
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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2020, 12:32:07 PM »
The only explanation I can think of is that 82% is after 7-10 days from the dose and 52% is counting from the first day, but it is amazing how many reporters and doctors are repeating data that clearly makes no sense

Maybe it progressively drops to 52% at 3 months, which then jumps to 95% with the booster. How long the booster lasts.... Dunno.
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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2020, 12:34:56 PM »
Maybe it progressively drops to 52% at 3 months, which then jumps to 95% with the booster. How long the booster lasts.... Dunno.
The trial only lasted 2 months
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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2020, 12:36:05 PM »
The trial only lasted 2 months

Yea, I got nothing. None of these numbers are making much sense to me.
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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2020, 01:38:35 PM »
I think this vaccine will turn a lot of people into anti-vaxxers.  I'm a big believer overall, but when I see how they approved these vaccines which don't begin to make sense I'm starting to doubt this whole process. Impossible to have necessary research on this after 3-4 months. shouldn't they know long term side effects? shouldn't they know first what percentage this will actually help or what percentage will have an allergic reaction?

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2020, 01:43:54 PM »
Yes, your post makes a lot more sense.

The vaccine triggered an allergic reaction in 0.6% of patients, and the placebo in 0.5%.
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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2020, 08:49:06 PM »
I think this vaccine will turn a lot of people into anti-vaxxers.  I'm a big believer overall, but when I see how they approved these vaccines which don't begin to make sense I'm starting to doubt this whole process. Impossible to have necessary research on this after 3-4 months. shouldn't they know long term side effects? shouldn't they know first what percentage this will actually help or what percentage will have an allergic reaction?

These were my exact thoughts. But I still know people (a lot of them) who are blindly jumping at the opportunity to get vaccinated and pushing others into it in the hope of getting back to 100% normal life.

I guess that might be a good thing... Otherwise, we'd have everyone run the other way.

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2020, 08:55:06 PM »
blindly
Definitely not as blindly as those who are posting claims without even pretending to address the actual facts behind them
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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2020, 09:00:37 PM »
I think this vaccine will turn a lot of people into anti-vaxxers.  I'm a big believer overall, but when I see how they approved these vaccines which don't begin to make sense I'm starting to doubt this whole process. Impossible to have necessary research on this after 3-4 months. shouldn't they know long term side effects? shouldn't they know first what percentage this will actually help or what percentage will have an allergic reaction?
Hence it's EUA... There is a reason the FDA isn't approving it as a regular vaccine.

I suppose they weigh 280,000 deaths with likelihood of the vaccine causing more or less hard. Then decide to what degree etc it would be worth approving something and this met that much lower standard to get EUA.

Even if this does come out to have terrible side effects it'll be sad to see people turn anti-vax considering the FDA isn't claiming or even authorizing this as a normal vaccine like the others.

It's that point where people turn off their logic and just use emotions to decide what they'll do, which causes people to equate things and believe nonsense and turn anti-vax. Which I agree, may happen here.

(Postmarketing surveillance is a huge factor when it comes to what we know about drugs, and with this getting such a massive usage before any Postmarketing surveillance, it obviously raises the likelihood of risk and side effects, I mean obviously 40k people is a tiny sample size compared to how many people will be getting the vaccine.)
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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2020, 09:15:59 PM »
I mean obviously 40k people is a tiny sample size compared to how many people will be getting the vaccine.
Between Pfizer, Moderna, AstroZeneca, Johnson and Johnson and Novovax there are well over 100K volunteers vaccinated. By the time you and I make a decision there will have been tens of millions vaccinated with plenty of data available.

Note that decision makers with access to greater intel and understanding of the process like Netanyahu, Fauci, Bill Gates and Obama have announced that they’ll be first in one to take the vaccine. There’s a reason they’re not too afraid.
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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2020, 09:22:38 PM »
. By the time you and I make a decision there will have been tens of millions vaccinated with plenty of data available.
In the US it seems priortization will come down to the individual hospitals, so I think there's a decent chance we'll be able to be in the first 10m of Pfizer/Moderna. Hopefully we'll see a Vaccination DO thread by Jan...
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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2020, 09:59:25 PM »
Hence it's EUA... There is a reason the FDA isn't approving it as a regular vaccine.

I suppose they weigh 280,000 deaths with likelihood of the vaccine causing more or less hard. Then decide to what degree etc it would be worth approving something and this met that much lower standard to get EUA.

Even if this does come out to have terrible side effects it'll be sad to see people turn anti-vax considering the FDA isn't claiming or even authorizing this as a normal vaccine like the others.

It's that point where people turn off their logic and just use emotions to decide what they'll do, which causes people to equate things and believe nonsense and turn anti-vax. Which I agree, may happen here.

(Postmarketing surveillance is a huge factor when it comes to what we know about drugs, and with this getting such a massive usage before any Postmarketing surveillance, it obviously raises the likelihood of risk and side effects, I mean obviously 40k people is a tiny sample size compared to how many people will be getting the vaccine.)

This seems to be a very good argument for the idea that those who are low risk should put off getting the vaccine until more data is in (which may happen by default).

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2020, 10:00:10 PM »
Even if there are 10m vaccinated before one decides to take it, those 10m won't have been vaccinated long enough at all to know about long term side effects.

I think that's on a lot of people's minds who are hesitant. Long term side effects are obviously impossible to know until a few years have passed and we can't wait that long to introduce a vaccine.

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2020, 10:02:12 PM »
Note that decision makers with access to greater intel and understanding of the process like Netanyahu, Fauci, Bill Gates and Obama have announced that they’ll be first in one to take the vaccine. There’s a reason they’re not too afraid.

Don't know about the others, but Obama said he'll take it when it's available to the general public (not sure exactly what words he used) which won't be right away.

Also, their risk/benefit calculation is different from the average Joe, because them taking it can save many lives by calming people's fears.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 10:05:43 PM by zh cohen »

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2020, 10:05:16 PM »
Even if there are 10m vaccinated before one decides to take it, those 10m won't have been vaccinated long enough at all to know about long term side effects.

I think that's on a lot of people's minds who are hesitant. Long term side effects are obviously impossible to know until a few years have passed and we can't wait that long to introduce a vaccine.
If you step on your toe and nothing happens, you don't need to wait a few years to know nothing happened. The vaccine clears the body and is no longer having any impact on it.

Never in history did a vaccine have any adverse effect that was only discovered after more than 2 months.

So yes, we don't know 100%, but we also don't know for sure the sun will rise tomorrow morning.
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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2020, 10:15:29 PM »
If you step on your toe and nothing happens, you don't need to wait a few years to know nothing happened. The vaccine clears the body and is no longer having any impact on it.

Never in history did a vaccine have any adverse effect that was only discovered after more than 2 months.

I'm not expecting there to be any but it is something that is on people's minds especially because of the speed at which the vaccine came or is coming to the general public. A lot faster than any other vaccine in history. Hopefully, there won't be anything to be worried about. Just doesn't mean that there won't be people who will worry anyway.

So yes, we don't know 100%, but we also don't know for sure the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

I'll keep you posted about that iyh tomorrow morning.

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2020, 10:22:15 PM »
https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download

While not a significant number, 4 cases of Bell's palsy were reported. Neurological symptoms coupled with the allergy warning is making it seems less and less exciting by the day. And we're only D+1 from mass distribution in the West.

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Re: The Pfizer Vaccine and do people who had COVID already need the vaccine?
« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2020, 10:27:23 PM »
https://www.fda.gov/media/144245/download

While not a significant number, 4 cases of Bell's palsy were reported. Neurological symptoms coupled with the allergy warning is making it seems less and less exciting by the day. And we're only D+1 from mass distribution in the West.
Posted elsewhere. 4/5 Bell’s palsy episodes are resolved without damage. Allergies were only reported in people with tendencies
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