Author Topic: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?  (Read 19977 times)

Offline yandmk

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2021, 07:29:30 AM »
Dunno about the secular crowds, but if they want a tip to capture the frum crowd, they just need to start offering 2 checked bags in Y. UA and DL will then never see a frum passenger again.....

Offline chff

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2021, 07:40:24 AM »
Dunno about the secular crowds, but if they want a tip to capture the frum crowd, they just need to start offering 2 checked bags in Y. UA and DL will then never see a frum passenger again.....
Watch UA/DL copy that within the hour

Offline m65

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2021, 07:43:53 AM »
What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid?
the El Al part

Offline tavster

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2021, 09:11:10 AM »
The concept of complimentary upgrade doesn't exist.

They will only upgrade if they have overbooked, and even in these cases they try to squeeze a few points for the upgrade.

They can also introduce upgrade certificates for elites, which could be used across most fares and award tickets.

At the moment TP receive upgrade vouchers which are basically worthless since they can only be used in Y and M fares.

Offline Yef

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2021, 03:18:49 PM »
They should have auctions for upgrades

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2021, 03:31:00 PM »
the attitude

Offline yochai

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Offline cubicles

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2021, 03:33:53 PM »
Join 1 of the 3 Major Airline Alliances

Offline El Capitan

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2021, 03:51:59 PM »
Join 1 of the 3 Major Airline Alliances
Are you sure that's something we want? Maybe you just have them partner up with more individual airlines. Doesn't join an alliance tend to devalue it?
Still looking for a good MS method :)

Offline aygart

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2021, 05:31:37 PM »
Are you sure that's something we want? Maybe you just have them partner up with more individual airlines. Doesn't join an alliance tend to devalue it?
Devalue what
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline El Capitan

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2021, 07:12:32 PM »
Devalue what
Points although right now there's nothing left to devalue
Still looking for a good MS method :)

Offline Chaikel

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2021, 07:31:08 PM »
Lord knows I'm no fan of Elal, I'm definitely not one to defend them, but Matmid is one of the few things in Elal I actually think makes sense (:o). Not perfect, but not something in need of a major overhaul.

Most airlines, particularly US based airlines, have a wide demographic and can afford lucrative opportunities in their frequent flyer programs that a small percentage of their base will exploit. Elal on the other hand, and I say this with all due respect and as both a Jew and a DDF member, has a demographic that is shall we say, "always looking for a deal". This makes a lucrative frequent flyer program much less profitable than a legacy US carrier that relies on high levels of spoilage and poor redemption values.
Additionally, pre-Covid, Elal had a very low number of seats go empty, which is pretty unique for an airline. When you're likely to sell the seat as a revenue ticket, "giving away" inventory for awards is more expensive than other airlines that can safely assume that seat will be empty regardless.

We have to understand that Elal is a business like any other, and expecting them to offer with nothing in return is preposterous. So when you think of how Elal can make their program better, what you have to think is how Elal can make more money off Matmid not less.

Traditionally frequent flyer programs generate revenue for an airline in one of two ways. 1. Printing miles to sell to partners (such as banks), 2. Gaining/retaining loyal customers. So off the bat, yes, Elal needs a lot of help in 1. And saying a better Matmid program will attract more people towards earning Matmid points and therefore allow Elal to sell more points, while true is a simple math equation. Per point they need to be profiting. If the program is overly lucrative to the point that they can be making more money on the seats being redeemed than they are selling the points, it's a loss for them. So putting 1. aside for now, I'd like to focus on 2.

Whose loyalty is Elal looking for?
Well you have the budget/infrequent traveler. While they may collect and utilize every point they can, ultimately what attracts them is the 3 Ps (not provided by the SBA), price price price. So no Matmid incentive for Elal there
Then there are the frequent/corporate travelers, the golden goose of the airline industry. Well those customers care about route networks and comfort/care. Yes, all things equal they may take the frequent flyer program into account, but at the end of the day it's about the service.
You see Elal doesn't have a direct competitor. They are either convenient or not. Yes, someone sticking to the flagship NYC route will have competition to choose from, but for the vast majority of those customers it will come down to soft and hard product, and timetables, which are not comparable.

In summary, I don't see how Matmid will help them compete.

Simplify. Simplify. Simplify
Interesting. I would say Matmid has one of the simpler programs out there. Comparing them to the dynamic, multiple level pricings of most programs these days, Elal seems to be of the simplest. Unless you are referring to the technology, yes. Elal is sorely lacking in the technology department, but hey, that's most companies in The Startup Nation.

1) Multiply earning rates and redemption rates by 50 to be in line with other mileage currencies.
2) Add the ability to change and cancel bookings online.
1) Semantics. It's the same value, just looks different. I'm not saying they shouldn't make their program look more like other programs, but at the end of the day What's the difference if you earn 1 point per flight and require 50 for a free flight, or if you earn 500 per flight and require 2500 for a redemption. It may look shinier, but it's still the same program. Al Zeh Nemar putting lipstick on a pig.
2) Absolutely. But they should have that ability for rev flights first. The goes back to technology, see above

1) Get rid of points' expiration
2) Align elite benefits with other airlines, including systemwide upgrades, and dedicated fares to book award space

Has LY reached out to you?
1) This targets the budget flier that cares about price above all else. What does Elal gain by catering their program to that demographic? They will just book with the lowest carrier the next time. In fact points from credit cards used to not expire. Because that was a demographic worth catering to.
2) Elal's Elite benefits are quite competitive. They are one of the most generous airlines for upgrades on the NYC-TLV route. Their award availability on that route is hands down the best of the 3 carriers that fly it. Awards are costly, and that is what keeps them open. In fact, their frequent fliers find that to be a major advantage of Elal, they are able to exercise their awards, as opposed to UA/DL which pre-Covid you could count the award space to TLV on a single hand.
The one tweak I can see beneficial to Elal here is to give elites greater award availability. It would obviously have to be restricted so that people couldn't just take advantage of that availability and use an elite account to do whatever they wanted to do.

And yes as @El Capitan rightfully flags, taxes and fees on award tickets are outrageous
$125 per way is far from outrageous. I will submit it is more than UA/DL, but outrageous?
This again comes down to for it to be a loyalty program, Elal has to keep availability open to their loyalists. If they're just gonna give seats away for pennies, it does them a disservice. YQ aside from giving Elal additional revenue that frequent fliers are willing to pay, it is also a barrier to the freeloaders

Also in the case we're already talking about fixing the program... Partnering with a US bank (Chase or Amex or Citi etc) wouldn't be a bad idea either
Yes! Figure out a way to print miles to generate revenue. This is an idea that is a win-win

I just realized while everyone is getting worked up about the matmid side OP @Dan asked about el al as well... While I risk stating the obvious my suggestions are as follows. Don't strand people in Athens for shabbos. Treat your customers as customers not as prisoners (yes even in Y ) and market aggressively

Also operationally from a standpoint of delays etc...

I think this sums it up...

I would start with them allowing you to publicly post the previous meeting you had with them
Operations/management. Yes, a lot of help is needed in that department

MIKVAH IN FIRST. is a must to compete with ARAB CLASS F SHOWERS ;D
Emirates has a 1 person at a time rule  ???

Nicer FA s.
Better food ( might as well make all the food mehadrin)
Cooler air on planes
the attitude
While there’s a ton of room for improvement, they were starting to make some serious headway. Even before Covid they had some serious regression here, but the new management seems to understand that this must be a focus.

I noticed part of the question is "while trying to survive". Meaning all suggestions are nice, but they may cost to implement.
A general good idea would probably to look at southwest, they have a pretty economic yet decent experience, although obviously there are lackings and they aren't exactly the best comparison.
;D ;D ;D
Someone gets it


On a serious note my suggestions would be:

1. Align currency with other airlines.
2. Add airline redemption partners.
3. Simplify awards and expand them to reflect #2.
4. Provide a way (or ways) to avoid mileage expiration.
1. See above
2. YES!
3. Not sure how much simpler they can be (see above)
4. While I have mentioned expiration above, the idea of giving a customer an opportunity to ‘earn’ a longer expiration is something that does make sense.

The concept of complimentary upgrade doesn't exist.

They will only upgrade if they have overbooked, and even in these cases they try to squeeze a few points for the upgrade.

They can also introduce upgrade certificates for elites, which could be used across most fares and award tickets.

At the moment TP receive upgrade vouchers which are basically worthless since they can only be used in Y and M fares.
No airline complimentary upgrades their elites on TLV routes

Join 1 of the 3 Major Airline Alliances
They would love to. *A/*S are direct competitors. *O not that interested as they have partners in the region. Up until now Elal hasn’t had much to offer route wise, but possibly that will change with the new agreements.


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Offline YitzyS

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2021, 07:35:24 PM »
They have to start advertising on DansDeals, silly!
Can I assume by the fact that @Chaikel didn't dispute my suggestion that he agrees with it?

Offline Chaikel

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2021, 08:03:28 PM »
Can I assume by the fact that @Chaikel didn't dispute my suggestion that he agrees with it?
Absolutely
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Offline yandmk

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2021, 02:04:42 AM »
In addition to @Chaikel 's points, I'll add one more plus to Matmid for the customer (or abuser).
El Al is one of the only airlines that doesn't audit their FF program. It's one of the only programs out there where you can literally sell, abuse, and twist it any way you want in your favor, with no consequences.
I honestly don't think I ever heard of someone who was 'shut down' by El Al.

(If only they can return Amex transfers for the ability to top off accounts and earn 'executive' status...)

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2021, 03:34:22 AM »
Pretty much anything I could think of has already been said, but I'll add that the current iteration of the American Fly Card Preferred is a big missed opportunity.

The earning ratio does not beat a 2%+ card and there is very little added value in using and holding the card beyond free year one.

I would highly value the addition of 2 passes to KDL, which United offers with their card, for example.  Or even a two-tier system (regular card and premium card), with the premium card offering PP/enhanced access to KDL similar to the AA Admirals/United Club cards.  The marginal cost to El Al shouldn't be too high, beyond the "פגיעה ביוקרה" that would come with easier access to the lounge.

Obviously more bonus categories would be nice also - even the Israeli version offers 2X at various merchants.

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2021, 08:25:48 AM »
In addition to @Chaikel 's points, I'll add one more plus to Matmid for the customer (or abuser).
El Al is one of the only airlines that doesn't audit their FF program. It's one of the only programs out there where you can literally sell, abuse, and twist it any way you want in your favor, with no consequences.
I honestly don't think I ever heard of someone who was 'shut down' by El Al.

(If only they can return Amex transfers for the ability to top off accounts and earn 'executive' status...)
I agree that some of us may benefit from this, but that’s exactly an area where they can make cuts to allow more benefits for “legit” consumers.

Offline Chaikel

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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2021, 10:10:03 AM »
Pretty much anything I could think of has already been said, but I'll add that the current iteration of the American Fly Card Preferred is a big missed opportunity.

The earning ratio does not beat a 2%+ card and there is very little added value in using and holding the card beyond free year one.

I would highly value the addition of 2 passes to KDL, which United offers with their card, for example.  Or even a two-tier system (regular card and premium card), with the premium card offering PP/enhanced access to KDL similar to the AA Admirals/United Club cards.  The marginal cost to El Al shouldn't be too high, beyond the "פגיעה ביוקרה" that would come with easier access to the lounge.

Obviously more bonus categories would be nice also - even the Israeli version offers 2X at various merchants.
2 KDL lounge passes are an excellent idea, and IMO should be passed on to Elal @Dan
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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2021, 10:12:19 AM »
I agree that some of us may benefit from this, but that’s exactly an area where they can make cuts to allow more benefits for “legit” consumers.
The market the Elal is catering to values selling miles. This is pretty much an undisputable fact. That applies to "legit" customers as well. I can see the argument made both ways
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Re: What Would You Change About El Al/Matmid (2021 Edition)?
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2021, 10:25:25 AM »
the El Al part
no response by @Chaikel 😢😢😢