Poll

What comes next for Donald Trump?

POTUS 2024-2028
Asylum in Russia
Florida Businessman without political office

Author Topic: What comes next for Donald Trump?  (Read 133988 times)

Offline biobook

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1140 on: May 31, 2024, 12:50:15 PM »
I know it's Friday, and others have moved on, but I'll try to answer this as I understand it.

Just read an article about the case on MSN for the first time and trying to understand the crime. The crime would be because he falsified business records to do something illegal. That something illegal would be to win the election illegally. The first is only illegal because of the second and the second is only illegal because of the first. That seems like circular logic and something you can't be guilty for.

No, the first is illegal even without the second, but the second makes it more serious.
The second is illegal even without the first, but wasn't charged independently here.

In 2006 Trump had an affair with Stormy.  This may have been immoral, but it wasn’t a crime. 
In 2006, Trump did NOT say to Stormy, “I don’t want Melania to find out about this, so how about we keep this quiet and here’s $130,000 to help you have a nice life”.  If he had done that, it would not have been a crime.
 
In 2016, Trump and Michael Cohen conspired to engage in election campaign fraud, trying to illegally influence an election.  That IS a crime, but it’s not the crime that he was charged with.  I’ll come back to this in a bit.

In 2016 and 2017, Trump created false business records, when he paid money to Michael Cohen and wrongly recorded that they were legal expenses.   “Falsifying business records” is a crime, but a low level one – a misdemeanor.  This is not the crime he was charged with.  As others have noted, many misdemeanors are never prosecuted.

What Trump was charged with was “Falsifying business records with the intent to commit or cover up a crime”.  This is more serious – a felony – and this is the only thing he was charged with.  (34 records were falsified, so he was charged 34 times, but it was all part of the same crime.)  The crime he was trying to commit or cover up was the crime of violating election campaign laws. 

To conclude that he was guilty, the jury had to agree unanimously that he had falsified business records, and they had to agree unanimously that he did so with the intent to violate election campaign law.  They were unanimous, and he was found guilty.

There are many ways to violate election laws, and Trump himself has long raged against such violations: votes from dead people, miscounting votes, etc.  Trump’s own violations were with regard to campaign finance law, and included at least three separate violations which were alluded to.  He conspired to pay $130,000 to Stormy with the intent to influence his campaign, so this is considered a campaign contribution and, like the cost of his rallies and ads, he was required to report it to the Federal Election Commission.  Instead, he had Cohen pay Stormy, and then fraudulently had his repayment to Cohen be recorded as a legal fee, such that Cohen owed tax on this fake “income”.   So there were false reports to the offices of state and federal taxes.
 
If Trump had been charged here with violating election laws, then the prosecutors would have called witnesses and submitted evidence regarding exactly how he committed that crime.  They did, in fact, do this when charging Trump’s co-conspirator, Michael Cohen, for his part in this same crime.  Cohen was convicted and spent several years in jail for making an excessive campaign contribution ($130,000 to Stormy) for the purpose of influencing an election.  Cohen admitted that he had done this at Trump’s request, and so it would not be surprising if Trump were also charged with his part in that crime, but he wasn't.

Since the current charge was “Falsifying business records with the intent to commit or cover up the crime of campaign fraud” the jury was only provided with the evidence for that charge and not given all the details they'd need to determine his guilt in “excessive unreported campaign contributions".  So the judge told them that they did not need to reach consensus about the details of that campaign violation, but simply agree that some campaign violation had occurred.  One juror might think he made an excessive unreported campaign contribution, while others might think he also had evaded paying federal or state taxes.  Even if they disagreed about those details, their decision would be considered unanimous for the charge of “Falsifying business records with the intent to commit or cover up a crime of campaign fraud” if they were unanimous in finding that some campaign crime had been committed.




Offline yelped

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1141 on: May 31, 2024, 12:56:32 PM »
There has to be thousands of tweets of support from R's about respecting the verdict. Can you just post 100 or so?  :)
Lol. It's useful that you tagged me, because otherwise I would have missed Biobook's post.

Thank for taking the time to explain it. As we would say around here: "weak sauce" or "meh". Trump being a "convicted felon" because of this is not going to anyone not vote for him, is someone was going to vote for him before.

Online zh cohen

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1142 on: May 31, 2024, 12:57:18 PM »
It seems to be up to the judge.

Correct and based on his conduct until it does not seem out of the question for him to send Trump to jail.

It also seems that similar cases received jail time (according to the talking heads).

Interesting, since I saw (anti-Trump) people saying the opposite. My guess is that it depends how you define "similar."

Offline CountValentine

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1143 on: May 31, 2024, 01:01:49 PM »
Would love to be on a jury with @biobook as foreperson!!!
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1144 on: May 31, 2024, 01:04:08 PM »
Thank for taking the time to explain it. As we would say around here: "weak sauce" or "meh". Trump being a "convicted felon" because of this is not going to anyone not vote for him, is someone was going to vote for him before.
Actually the polls say differently. Some will vote against him but surprisingly some will vote for him.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half
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Offline yelped

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1145 on: May 31, 2024, 01:06:16 PM »
Actually the polls say differently. Some will vote against him but surprisingly some will vote for him.
People who would vote for him until now would change because of these charges?? I can hear about some of the other ones, but for this?

Offline CountValentine

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1146 on: May 31, 2024, 01:11:36 PM »
People who would vote for him until now would change because of these charges??
Polls were based on this case before the verdict. They are just polls, and we know how that works.
It is like me asking you a question or you asking me a question. It will be worded differently.  :)
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Offline yelped

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1147 on: May 31, 2024, 01:18:15 PM »
Polls were based on this case before the verdict. They are just polls, and we know how that works.
It is like me asking you a question or you asking me a question. It will be worded differently.  :)
So we're on the same page.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1148 on: May 31, 2024, 01:20:59 PM »
So we're on the same page.
On a Friday, what fun is that?
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1149 on: May 31, 2024, 01:21:57 PM »
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half
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Offline UKinNYS

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1150 on: May 31, 2024, 01:26:26 PM »
Politician is gonna do politics, this is expected if you have a D after your name.

This just highlights why its all the more commendable that he goes out of the way to support Israel.

Offline jj1000

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1151 on: May 31, 2024, 01:30:06 PM »
From the poster child of DDF!!!
https://x.com/JohnFetterman/status/1796552074576138353
If Fetterman was running as the D against Trump.

How many here do you think would vote for Trump?
See my 5 step program to your left <--

(Real signature under my location)

Offline justaregularguy

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1152 on: May 31, 2024, 01:41:50 PM »
If Fetterman was running as the D against Trump.

How many here do you think would vote for Trump?
are you asking how many of the general population would vote for Trump? No change.
If you’re asking how many OF US will vote for Trump over fetterman, great question 😁
I just thought the wording of your question sounded like the former rather then the latter
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline ExGingi

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1153 on: May 31, 2024, 01:41:55 PM »
That is all? He has my vote.  :)

I've got new for you: Your vote doesn't matter!!!



https://www.270towin.com/states/Illinois

Though it is still better than my state:





I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline CountValentine

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1154 on: May 31, 2024, 01:42:44 PM »
How many here do you think would vote for Trump?
The vast majority.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1155 on: May 31, 2024, 01:44:49 PM »
I've got new for you: Your vote doesn't matter!!!
No my vote matters as much as anybody's.
You can post this non-sense all you want, and it won't change simple math.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half
Simone Biles: “I love my black job”

Offline ExGingi

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1156 on: May 31, 2024, 01:45:13 PM »
The vast majority.

The vast majority live in states where their votes don't count one way or another. The smart ones sit this out.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline CountValentine

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1157 on: May 31, 2024, 01:46:04 PM »
The vast majority live in states where their votes don't count one way or another. The smart ones sit this out.
You can post this non-sense all you want, and it won't change simple math.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half
Simone Biles: “I love my black job”

Offline ExGingi

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1158 on: May 31, 2024, 01:46:40 PM »
From the poster child of DDF!!!
https://x.com/JohnFetterman/status/1796552074576138353

He's not delusional (and I don't think most here are).

We know what we are getting (more or less), we still prefer it to the alternative. IT'S BINARY!!!
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: What comes next for Donald Trump?
« Reply #1159 on: May 31, 2024, 01:49:35 PM »


Here's one for you:

https://middletonma.gov/303/The-Power-of-One-Vote

The only Presidential election listed here still only mattered in FL!
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan