Author Topic: Ideas in how to lower the temperature  (Read 23364 times)

Offline aradisc

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2021, 04:00:59 PM »
https://twitter.com/RiegerReport/status/1348113803158945793

https://twitter.com/DanAmira/status/1346904343413465090

Too many (and it starts from the top) unwilling to do what it takes to lower the temperature.

Offline whYME

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #61 on: January 12, 2021, 05:09:41 PM »
https://twitter.com/DanAmira/status/1346904343413465090
If the only the left were capable of seeing how they created this monster...

Offline whYME

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #62 on: January 12, 2021, 06:19:21 PM »
If anything, he should give a press announcement saying that even though he believes there may have been fraud, it is irrelevant now that the law has played out, .... And perhaps congress can unite and look into the election so that future elections can be safer.
He more or less said this at the time of the "riot," but Twitter hid then deleted it...

Offline whYME

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #63 on: January 12, 2021, 06:20:19 PM »
When the notion of impeachment was raised in Inauguration Day election night, and they have been screaming against him for four years, they cannot be the one's to say, "Now the wolf is really here."

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2021, 06:32:44 PM »
Too many (and it starts from the top) unwilling to do what it takes to lower the temperature.
Donald Trump can extinguish the flames entirely in a single video.
Absent that, we will reach unity through bipartisan impeachment and prosecution of the terrorists.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2021, 06:40:24 PM »
He more or less said this at the time of the "riot," but Twitter hid then deleted it...
In his video then, he stressed very strongly that the election had been stolen, and it was a sad time. I don't think the words were wrong, but his tone and focus was inflammatory.

It's like the story they say about a rebbe in Eretz Yisroel who held that his chassidim should vote for candidate A. The gedolim, however, endorsed candidate B, and they asked all rabbonim to tell their kehilos to vote for candidate B. This rebbe, in subservience to the will of the gedolim, announced to his chassidim that they should vote for candidate B.

On election night, as the numbers came in, it became clear that most of his chassidim voted for candidate A. When the gedolim questioned him about it, he said, "My chassidim are real chassidim. It doesn't matter what the rebbe says, they do what the rebbe really wants."

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2021, 10:14:45 PM »
In his video then, he stressed very strongly that the election had been stolen, and it was a sad time. I don't think the words were wrong,
At the very least, he should have said it may have been stolen. Falsely claiming it was certainly stolen while terrorists are attacking the Congress for that cause l is high treason, either by intent or by mental illness.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2021, 10:20:16 PM »
At the very least, he should have said it may have been stolen. Falsely claiming it was certainly stolen while terrorists are attacking the Congress for that cause l is high treason, either by intent or by mental illness.
Trump has said such rhetoric for years. He gets people excited, they scream and yell, and then they all go home. To say with certainty that he knew that his actions would lead to those results is not being reasonable, IMO.

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #68 on: January 12, 2021, 10:26:05 PM »
Trump has said such rhetoric for years. He gets people excited, they scream and yell, and then they all go home. To say with certainty that he knew that his actions would lead to those results is not being reasonable, IMO.
The video you discussed was taken after the results occurred. Him using such rhetoric often makes it worse, not better.

He swore an oath to proactively protect the country and constitution, and instead used that video message to give aid and comfort to the terrorists attempting to overthrow it. High treason.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Shaya E

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #69 on: January 12, 2021, 10:29:11 PM »
Trump has said such rhetoric for years. He gets people excited, they scream and yell, and then they all go home. To say with certainty that he knew that his actions would lead to those results is not being reasonable, IMO.

Trump using such rhetoric for years doesn't in any way make it better. As a matter of fact, this is precisely why responsible people do not use such rhetoric. I personally think Trump knew exactly what he was doing. But in order to give him the benefit of the doubt I'm willing to consider him an irresponsible idiot. Unfortunately for him, such a level of idiocy might make him unfit to be president from a medical standpoint.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #70 on: January 12, 2021, 10:33:28 PM »
The video you discussed was taken after the results occurred. Him using such rhetoric often makes it worse, not better.

He swore an oath to proactively protect the country and constitution, and instead used that video message to give aid and comfort to the terrorists attempting to overthrow it. High treason.
I can certainly hear your point, but let me ask you a question.

Let's go with the assumption that he really believes that the election was stolen from him. Does he have to give up on that notion to stop the violence? Is he forced by law to concede the election just because there are crazy rioters and there is a chance that they'll back down if he stands up and concedes? (which may not the case, it may infuriate them more, but for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that him conceding will help calm everyone down)

If I believe that he has a constitutional right to scream that the election was stolen from him, should he lose that right because there are rioters? Or should he be allowed to affirm that right while saying that there must be peace and everyone should go home?

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2021, 10:35:08 PM »
Trump using such rhetoric for years doesn't in any way make it better. As a matter of fact, this is precisely why responsible people do not use such rhetoric. I personally think Trump knew exactly what he was doing. But in order to give him the benefit of the doubt I'm willing to consider him an irresponsible idiot. Unfortunately for him, such a level of idiocy might make him unfit to be president from a medical standpoint.
I think one can disagree with both of your conclusions, and say that he did not expect violent results, rather a fired up group of supporters who will defend his policies and vote for him if he runs in 2024.

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2021, 10:39:30 PM »
Let's go with the assumption that he really believes that the election was stolen from him. Does he have to give up on that notion to stop the violence? Is he forced by law to concede the election just because there are crazy rioters and there is a chance that they'll back down if he stands up and concedes? (which may not the case, it may infuriate them more, but for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that him conceding will help calm everyone down)

If I believe that he has a constitutional right to scream that the election was stolen from him, should he lose that right because there are rioters? Or should he be allowed to affirm that right while saying that there must be peace and everyone should go home?

Yes, he has to accept the law of the US which dictates he lost fair and square. Any refusal to do so while comforting terrorists is treason. Freedom of Speech doesn't change anything.

I think one can disagree with both of your conclusions, and say that he did not expect violent results, rather a fired up group of supporters who will defend his policies and vote for him if he runs in 2024.
Again, his video was filmed and publicized after the violent siege of the Capitol began and most of the coequal branch of government and line of succession felt an immediate threat to their life.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2021, 10:43:44 PM »
I hear your point, but there is one point that I don't agree with, upon which this whole thing hinges. Let me break my question down to one line.
If I believe that he has a constitutional right to scream that the election was stolen from him, should he lose that right because there are rioters?
I want your perspective based on the notion in the first line, even if you don't agree with that premise.

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2021, 10:46:02 PM »
I hear your point, but there is one point that I don't agree with, upon which this whole thing hinges. Let me break my question down to one line.I want your perspective based on the notion in the first line, even if you don't agree with that premise.

A constitutional right to do something doesn't prevent it from being a crime. You have a right to speak freely, you still can't accuse me falsely or it would be libel.

Milley has freedom of speech to say he thinks the Constitution is outdated or fake, but it would still be treason, since he has a duty of allegiance.

״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #75 on: January 12, 2021, 10:49:28 PM »
A constitutional right to do something doesn't prevent it from being a crime. You have a right to speak freely, you still can't accuse me falsely or it would be libel.

Milley has freedom of speech to say he thinks the Constitution is outdated or fake, but it would still be treason, since he has a duty of allegiance.
The way I understand you is that you are saying that my premise in the first line is wrong, and that Trump doesn't have a right to say that the election was stolen from him if the law dictates that he lost. And this would be a crime. I can definitely hear that, and you may be right. But I'm asking a different question. Let's say I would disagree with that, and say that making that claim was not a crime until January 6. Does it become a crime on January 6 just because of the rioters?

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #76 on: January 12, 2021, 10:56:56 PM »
The way I understand you is that you are saying that my premise in the first line is wrong, and that Trump doesn't have a right to say that the election was stolen from him if the law dictates that he lost. And this would be a crime. I can definitely hear that, and you may be right. But I'm asking a different question. Let's say I would disagree with that, and say that making that claim was not a crime until January 6. Does it become a crime on January 6 just because of the rioters?
Yes, anything aiding or comforting an ongoing act of terror is treason. A right to say something doesn't change that. Having a right to do something doesn't preclude it from being a crime. You have a right to drive on the street, but if somebody is lying there, it is murder.

Personally, I think it was criminal a lot before Jan 6, but on Jan 6 it definitely was.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #77 on: January 12, 2021, 11:01:08 PM »
Yes, anything aiding or comforting an ongoing act of terror is treason. A right to say something doesn't change that. Having a right to do something doesn't preclude it from being a crime. You have a right to drive on the street, but if somebody is lying there, it is murder.

Personally, I think it was criminal a lot before Jan 6, but on Jan 6 it definitely was.
Thanks for clarifying. I was having trouble understanding why so many people, Rs included, were breaking off from Trump based on his actions, and I think I now have a clearer understanding.

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #78 on: January 12, 2021, 11:02:56 PM »
Thanks for clarifying. I was having trouble understanding why so many people, Rs included, were breaking off from Trump based on his actions, and I think I now have a clearer understanding.
Ha, that's a real compliment. I guess years of Trump Derangement Syndrome on this site finally bore fruit  :)
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #79 on: January 12, 2021, 11:03:22 PM »
If you don't mind, I have another question to ask.

What did Ted Cruz do wrong? Isn't the very fact that the law asks for the legislature's approval for the vote count an indication that they have a right to disapprove?