Author Topic: Ideas in how to lower the temperature  (Read 23352 times)

Online aygart

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #140 on: January 13, 2021, 09:00:44 AM »
This forum is full of people who think Trump is a saint. When have you pointed out that "Trump is not perfection personified and he does have his fair share of problems"?
That has been repeated countless times by many here ever since his candidacy was on the table 5 years ago. If you are not seeing that it is a great demonstration of exactly his point that you have been incapable of understanding.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #141 on: January 13, 2021, 09:50:40 AM »
This sounds like exactly my point. Therefore vilifying them while ignoring the dems who tried the same stupid garbage will only bring the temperature higher and has little to do with anything but prior preferences.
It's not exactly your point, because it's not the same stupid garbage. The symbolic objection is not problematic in its own right. But in context it certainly can be, as one can argue about Cruz here. I just don't agree with what the left thinks the consequences for his misstep should be. And yes, I'm sure there are some who think his actions were seditious or insurrectionist or whatever, but among the politicians at least that's the same type of cynical political posturing that Cruz himself was employing.

That has been repeated countless times by many here ever since his candidacy was on the table 5 years ago. If you are not seeing that it is a great demonstration of exactly his point that you have been incapable of understanding.
I really think you're reading a lot of people through your own perspective and giving them way more leeway than they deserve. Are there members that share your exact sentiments about Trump? Sure. But there are definitely many members that are way out there in the deep end of Trump supporters. Are there also members who at the very least argue the side of a much more left-wing D leaning position? Sure. But I would guess that if a complete outsider went through all the political discussions in the last few years on DDF they'd place the collective political leanings of the forums well to the right of your stated positions.

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #142 on: January 13, 2021, 10:10:20 AM »
It's not exactly your point, because it's not the same stupid garbage. The symbolic objection is not problematic in its own right. But in context it certainly can be, as one can argue about Cruz here. I just don't agree with what the left thinks the consequences for his misstep should be. And yes, I'm sure there are some who think his actions were seditious or insurrectionist or whatever, but among the politicians at least that's the same type of cynical political posturing that Cruz himself was employing.
I really think you're reading a lot of people through your own perspective and giving them way more leeway than they deserve. Are there members that share your exact sentiments about Trump? Sure. But there are definitely many members that are way out there in the deep end of Trump supporters. Are there also members who at the very least argue the side of a much more left-wing D leaning position? Sure. But I would guess that if a complete outsider went through all the political discussions in the last few years on DDF they'd place the collective political leanings of the forums well to the right of your stated positions.
Are there a bunch who are real hard core trumpsters? Of course! I do not think that it has been the prevailing opinion here at all. The vast majority have been very transactional about him. That didn't prevent any of us from being called all sorts of names by the anti-Tumpers.
And you haven't been the only one, and all that has gotten you and others is being branded Trumspters and Trumpkins because you didn't accept the entire left-wing agenda along with it.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #143 on: January 13, 2021, 02:09:09 PM »
https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1349431111198371840?s=21

Whether or not he’s obligated to, Trump could certainly do more to lower the flames than Congressional democrats
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Offline 123-Rosh

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #144 on: January 13, 2021, 02:14:07 PM »
https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1349431111198371840?s=21

Whether or not he’s obligated to, Trump could certainly do more to lower the flames than Congressional democrats

Exactly. Not one democrat called for BLM and Antifa to lower the flames for the past 8 months. Not one!

Offline AsherO

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #145 on: January 13, 2021, 02:23:19 PM »
https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1349431111198371840?s=21

Whether or not he’s obligated to, Trump could certainly do more to lower the flames than Congressional democrats

Keep blaming the other side, that'll lower temperatures.
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #146 on: January 13, 2021, 02:53:18 PM »
Thanks for clarifying. I was having trouble understanding why so many people, Rs included, were breaking off from Trump based on his actions, and I think I now have a clearer understanding.
Here is a great excerpt from John Stuart Mills about the boundaries of free speech


https://twitter.com/zkarlinn/status/1349441845886144516?s=21
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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #147 on: January 13, 2021, 03:13:02 PM »
Keep blaming the other side, that'll lower temperatures.
After spending the 5 years raising the thermostat now they are calling on the other guy to get it all the way back down in one shot. All this whole they keep making it higher and higher.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #148 on: January 13, 2021, 03:21:42 PM »
After spending the 5 years raising the thermostat now they are calling on the other guy to get it all the way back down in one shot. All this whole they keep making it higher and higher.
The tweet I posted points out how Trump calling in a statement for all Americans to help ease tension and calm tempers is beyond ridiculous when he is the one who can do more than anybody else to calm them.

The other side being hypocrites doesn't change that.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #149 on: January 13, 2021, 03:35:45 PM »
The tweet I posted points out how Trump calling in a statement for all Americans to help ease tension and calm tempers is beyond ridiculous when he is the one who can do more than anybody else to calm them.

The other side being hypocrites doesn't change that.
That was not meant to be defending Trump at all, but most people pointing these things out are raising the temperature AS THEY ARE POINTING IT OUT. There are thousands of very similar examples on the other side too. NOT A SINGLE PERSON (or at least very close to that) in Washington cares at all to bring down the temperature. All they do is raise the temperature CONSTANTLY while calling on the other side alone to lower it.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #150 on: January 13, 2021, 03:38:37 PM »
NOT A SINGLE PERSON (or at least very close to that) in Washington cares at all to bring down the temperature. All they do is raise the temperature CONSTANTLY while calling on the other side alone to lower it.
Even Trump himself did a lot to lower the temperatures and end the Jan 6 siege, if only because he was forced to.
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Offline whYME

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #151 on: January 13, 2021, 03:48:43 PM »
The tweet I posted points out how Trump calling in a statement for all Americans to help ease tension and calm tempers is beyond ridiculous when he is the one who can do more than anybody else to calm them.
If only he would just roll over and die like all the Republicans before him things would get back to normal already...

Gee, I wonder how we got here...

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #152 on: January 13, 2021, 03:50:00 PM »
If only he would just roll over and die like all the Republicans before him things would get back to normal already...

Oh come on. Conceding an election and saying Biden will take office on Jan 20 isn't 'rolling over and dying'. Plenty of democrats have done the same.

And I know you're trying not to notice, but he did serious damage to the Republican Party. Like at their donors and infighting.
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Online aygart

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #153 on: January 13, 2021, 03:55:15 PM »
Even Trump himself did a lot to lower the temperatures and end the Jan 6 siege, if only because he was forced to.
Yeah, when it serves their interests they will lower the temperature even though they don't care about that.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline whYME

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #154 on: January 13, 2021, 03:57:15 PM »
Oh come on. Conceding an election and saying Biden will take office on Jan 20 isn't 'rolling over and dying'. Plenty of democrats have done the same.

And I know you're trying not to notice, but he did serious damage to the Republican Party. Like at their donors and infighting.
Oh, I forgot that US politics first started when Trump lost the election. Never mind then.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #155 on: January 13, 2021, 04:02:14 PM »
Conceding an election and saying Biden will take office on Jan 20 isn't 'rolling over and dying'.

Trump has made multiple such statements

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #156 on: January 13, 2021, 04:58:32 PM »
Milley has freedom of speech to say he thinks the Constitution is outdated or fake, but it would still be treason, since he has a duty of allegiance.

No it would not be treason unless he did  (or explicitly told someone else to do) something illegal based on that belief. (With regards to the freedom of speech question, I think members of the military lose some of that).

(I know the conversation has moved on, but I missed this post of the conversation when it happened)

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #157 on: January 13, 2021, 05:26:52 PM »
Big Lie

I hope you are familiar with the history of this term (especially capitalized) and will be appropriately careful about using it.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #158 on: January 13, 2021, 07:09:21 PM »
Trump has made multiple such statements
Not a single time. The most he said was the 'next administration' will take office in Jan 20.

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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #159 on: January 13, 2021, 07:13:12 PM »
No it would not be treason unless he did  (or explicitly told someone else to do) something illegal based on that belief. (With regards to the freedom of speech question, I think members of the military lose some of that).
Treason doesn't require proactive action. Ignoring duty to prevent something is just as treasonous.

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