Author Topic: Ideas in how to lower the temperature  (Read 23367 times)

Offline Shaya E

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #220 on: January 15, 2021, 12:42:26 PM »
I think that there were. I don't think I ever thought of him as a "principled person". He is a politician, after all. I thought he was more principled that he actually is.

He had me fooled. I was legitimately surprised at lot of his actions recently.

Offline aygart

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #221 on: January 15, 2021, 12:43:26 PM »
He had me fooled. I was legitimately surprised at lot of his actions recently.
Never think that a politician is different. Any time I ever thought that I was proven wrong.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Shaya E

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #222 on: January 15, 2021, 12:43:45 PM »
Not really. They were both pretty unpopular candidates and were both being called RINOs before Trump was in the picture.

Getting the nomination involves many factors, "majority of [party] felt like they represented them the best" is pretty low on the list.

Agreed. But getting the nomination does prove that you "aren't practically a dem" at the very least.

Offline Shaya E

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #223 on: January 15, 2021, 12:45:38 PM »
Never think that a politician is different. Any time I ever thought that I was proven wrong.

I never thought he was a paragon of morality. I did realize that he is a politician, I just didn't think he would bend over as far back as he has.

Offline aygart

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #224 on: January 15, 2021, 12:47:13 PM »
I never thought he was a paragon of morality. I did realize that he is a politician, I just didn't think he would bend over as far back as he has.
agreed.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline biobook

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #225 on: January 15, 2021, 12:55:12 PM »
He had me fooled. I was legitimately surprised at lot of his actions recently.
I don't remember that far back myself, but I searched Google News, for the 2015-16 period.  Here's one article that came up:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/18/us/politics/ted-cruz-shunned-in-the-senate-plays-unpopularity-to-his-advantage.html

Since his arrival in 2013, Senator Ted Cruz, Republican of Texas, has managed to alienate, exasperate and generally agitate the plurality of his 99 colleagues in the Senate. In a highly partisan, hypercompetitive legislative body where solipsism is nearly a creed, Mr. Cruz stands out for his widely held reputation for putting Ted first....

Mr. Cruz is so unpopular that at one point not a single Republican senator would support his demand for a roll-call vote, known as a sufficient second, leaving Mr. Cruz standing on the Senate floor like a man with bird flu, everyone scattering to avoid him.

(Remember when we worried about catching bird flu!?!?!)  It goes on from there. 

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #226 on: January 15, 2021, 01:22:52 PM »


He's always been extremely unlikeable

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #227 on: January 15, 2021, 02:41:21 PM »
McCain and Romney were both literally republican presidential candidates. At one point at least, the majority of republicans felt like they represented them the best. Over thw last few years, the requirements to be a republican changed to never saying anything Trump did is wrong and so they're not republicans anymore.
I find it very difficult to see a way for them to unite the two fringes of the party going forward unless Biden screws up badly or the Dems put up a bad candidate.
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Offline Shaya E

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #228 on: January 15, 2021, 04:08:57 PM »
I find it very difficult to see a way for them to unite the two fringes of the party going forward unless Biden screws up badly or the Dems put up a bad candidate.
+1. But under Biden I expect the Democrats to have a lot of infighting and to end up with a similar schism. The only thing uniting the two fringes of the Democratic party was their dislike of Trump. Now that that's not a factor, expect fireworks.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #229 on: January 15, 2021, 04:29:19 PM »
+10000000000000 I will admit that I was wrong about Cruz. Here is the guy who said about Trump “I am not in the habit of supporting people who attack my wife and attack my father” who now pulled down his pants for Trump.
I'm not sure it was electorally stupid. If he can lay low and weather out the next few months, the MAGA's can give him the primaries with some help from Donald Jr. etc. He was loyal enough to win some MAGA votes and still seen as less complicit than Pence & Hawley etc which will help with the anti-Trump voters.


+1. But under Biden I expect the Democrats to have a lot of infighting and to end up with a similar schism. The only thing uniting the two fringes of the Democratic party was their dislike of Trump. Now that that's not a factor, expect fireworks.
Very possible but there's an argument to be made the Democrats are more experienced and fundamentally capable of unity.

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Offline aygart

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #230 on: January 16, 2021, 09:33:00 PM »
still seen as less complicit than Pence

How was Pence complicit?

Very possible but there's an argument to be made the Democrats are more experienced and fundamentally capable of unity.
Why and how so?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #231 on: January 16, 2021, 09:40:38 PM »
How was Pence complicit?
Why and how so?
Pence propagated the Big Lie by denying Biden won for months after the election with comments like 'we will see what happens', but even without that, Pence's name is too closely affiliated with Trump IMO. 

A progressive party by definition has a far wider spectrum of opinions than a conservative policy, so the Democratic Party is used to supporting candidates they don't fully agree with.

Polls are showing 30% of the Republican Party will leave if the senate convicts DJT, but 9 GOP senators already support conviction and looking at donor behavior will suggest there is a large fraction of the party that won't stand for acquittal. Of course if they don't convict him, he still has the supporters to win primaries.
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #232 on: January 16, 2021, 09:46:53 PM »
For the love of humanity, can you stop using the phrase The Big Lie?

Offline aygart

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #233 on: January 16, 2021, 09:48:07 PM »

A progressive party by definition has a far wider spectrum of opinions than a conservative policy, so the Democratic Party is used to supporting candidates they don't fully agree with.
This is a figment of your imagination with no basis in reality. Which R nominee in recent memory was agreed with by conservatives about everything?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #234 on: January 16, 2021, 10:28:18 PM »
This is a figment of your imagination with no basis in reality. Which R nominee in recent memory was agreed with by conservatives about everything?
Nobody said agreed upon. The spectrum of opinions are much narrower in a Conservative party that mostly wants maintaining the status quo so the differences between both ends are much smaller. A progressive party calling for change, will by definition include a wider spectrum of proposed changes. Just look at the divergence between AOC/Ilan Omar & Biden/Schumer/Manchin.

The only imagination is your fantasy that somehow both parties and both side of a debate are always the exact same.
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Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #235 on: January 16, 2021, 10:31:12 PM »
For the love of humanity, can you stop using the phrase The Big Lie?
If only those who committed it would bother you half as much as those who dare to speak of it...
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #236 on: January 16, 2021, 10:37:02 PM »
If only those who committed it would bother you half as much as those who dare to speak of it...

If you can't make your point about modern day politicians you disagree with without invoking the Nazis, maybe the level I'm bothered by something isn't the issue.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #237 on: January 16, 2021, 10:38:37 PM »
Nobody said agreed upon. The spectrum of opinions are much narrower in a Conservative party that mostly wants maintaining the status quo so the differences between both ends are much smaller. A progressive party calling for change, will by definition include a wider spectrum of proposed changes. Just look at the divergence between AOC/Ilan Omar & Biden/Schumer/Manchin.

The only imagination is your fantasy that somehow both parties and both side of a debate are always the exact same.
That would be true if they were just trying to maintain status quo. But since the country has already moved so far left, there is a wide spectrum of views as far as how far back to the right to take things.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #238 on: January 16, 2021, 10:38:57 PM »
For the love of humanity, can you stop using the phrase The Big Lie?
For the love of humanity, can you stop using the phrase "for love of humanity"?

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Ideas in how to lower the temperature
« Reply #239 on: January 16, 2021, 10:53:51 PM »
That would be true if they were just trying to maintain status quo. But since the country has already moved so far left, there is a wide spectrum of views as far as how far back to the right to take things.
That’s true but it’s still smaller than the DNC IMHO.
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